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Joined: Mar 07, 2005 Posts: 328 Location: Chesterfield, UK
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:16 am Post subject:
I have heard before that peat is actually bad for reptiles, although I am not sure why. Can anyone explain, or correct me if i'm wrong.
Anyhow, your far better off using plain old common garden dirt/soil, assuming you can guarantee it isn't laced with pesticide and other nasty chemicals such as lawn feed. Natural soil will also contain pro-active bacteria, that will help break down germs and keep itself clean to some degree, and is obviously the natural choice for burrows in the wild.
That load of hogwash was started by Stella St.Pierre. Evidently some tegus of theirs came down with a fungal infection of some sort, and the only thing she could attribute it to was the peat they were using. Now she espouses how peat is killing tegus and people the world over. According to her, if you use peat, you and your tegu are going to die. Beware everyone, peat bogs will take over and rule the world!!!!
Truth of the matter is that any biological substrate that is used and not sterilized first has the potential to introduce pathogens. Many people have used peat without any nasty effects whatsoever. Personally, I've tried many different substrates for tegus, and if you've got an outdoor enclosure I recommend regular soil. Indoors, I have recently adopted using the eco-earth stuff (the shredded coconuts) as it holds humidity well, is easy to clean, and I haven't noticed any bad side effects yet. You could probably mix in some peat to acidify the substrate, which would actually help ward off a lot of pathogens.
You could probably mix in some peat to acidify the substrate, which would actually help ward off a lot of pathogens.
Indeed.. definately wards off a number of molds and fungi, I've done little experiments of my own with that in mind, using live Sphagnum, dead sphagnum, more dead sphagnum (Peat moss), High clay soil from northern cali, and some plain old dirt I picked up at a nursery.
Rinsed and drained it all multiple times, even running boiling water through it at a few points (Not the live moss!). Planted pumpkin seeds in each, and kept the pots reasonably damp. After that.. the science kind of went out of it as I lost track of the days. But sitting inside under flourescent lighting jumbled in with a ton of plants (Mostly carnivorous, with a few orchids) it took I'd say about 2 months of regulating cycles (every other day I kept the plants outside) and the dirt was infested with a spidery mold.
With nothing on the sphagnum samples as well as the clay.
2 weeks later the clay showned some signs, but that may be attributed to the growing ill health of the plant and the bogged condition (which was intentional)
The peat showed signs as well.
The plants died in the pure sphagnum samples, not sure what happened there.. but I keep it void of nutrients due to it's use as a CP soil medium.. Lack of nitrogen and other essentials most likely, though I can't say for sure.
6 months later.. new plants in the pure sphagnum (Baby fly traps), but the same cycle... still nothing, even though it's obvious the molds affected all plants, it only took over the normal soils.. I believe the clay was basic.
Wish I had the thought to get some ph strips.
... sorry for rambling, I thought it was interesting.. *shrug*
Peat is a usefull thing, I use it for all my herps without trouble, and I do have 2 planted terraria.. the sav's and the plated lizard's.. although their enclosures were made for omnivores and planted with common edible weeds and grasses.. which have since been torn to shreds, but atleast the grass still survives.
As far as being a good thing dry... eh, it's kind of dusty.. I'd use a wood mulch personally. _________________ 2.1 Beardies
1.1 Red Ackies
1.1 B.C.C.
-Recouperating-
Joined: Jul 16, 2005 Posts: 69 Location: corby, england
Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:24 pm Post subject:
how about mixing peat with sand?
i can get a female black and white and i need to get the substrate sortd and test humidity first. unfortunatly my resorces are a bit stretched so i have to do it as cheap and quick as possible before someone else snaps the tegu up before me.
unfortunatly the only save barkchippings not from a reptile retailer, and therefore cherap as heck, i know of are out of season now and impossible to get hold of at this time of year
i really need help fast on this
thanx _________________ uli
if you don't eat your meat you can't have any pudding
how can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat
If you have to do it as quick and cheap as possible (the last little sentence about bark chips didn't make a lot of sense to me, so I'm ignoring it) then just use newspaper or something, and change it every single day. It's free, if it's printed with vegetable based inks, it's safe, and you can mist it to hold some humidity, but much beyond a day it's gross, soggy and tends to mold. But it'll work. Personally, I loathe newspaper and refuse to use it except at school in the sick bird cages. Even my bird at home gets something better than newspaper. I find it just too messy and poorly absorbent.
I think there needs to be a clarification between sphagnum and peat. Sphagnum is a live moss found in bogs, and it's commonly used in plant shops in baskets and stuff. Part of the problem with it is that it can harbour the spores of a fungus called Sporothrix schenckii (my favourite fungus), which occasionally causes cutaneous mycoses (nice little granulomas that typically follow lymphatics, like everything else it's more severe in the immunosuppressed) in greenhouse workers, and was once part of an outbreak of dermatitis and stomatitis in some pygmy rattlesnakes and two garter snakes, in conjunction with 3 other opportunistic fungi (I am suspicious that there was some kind of environmental stressor going on long term to cause immunosuppression n that area). It's not a common pathogen by any means, and I've never seen a captive animal get sick from being kept on it. I like using it because it really, really holds water and it's really good for burrowing. My prehensile-tailed skink seems to really benefit from it, as it's DRY where I live.
Sphagnum peat/peat is preserved dead sphagnum, hauled out of the bottom of the muskegs or where they used to be (1/4 of the world's carbon is held in peat reserves!). It no longer really has a moss-like appearance. There has never been a case of sporotrichosis from using peat in people, and I've never heard of one in animals. It's the dry brown fuzzy stuff you have to rehydrate. I dislike using it because I find it's good until all of a sudden it's really dry, and then it gets in the animal's mouths and I find it dusty to breathe around - if I have trouble in a room, think about an animal living in it every day. Plus, the waterdishes are always messy
Both peat and live sphagnum are really antibacterial and antifungal, as well as possibly antiviral - part of this is 'cause it binds available cations by releasing protons, which is why it's so nice and acidic. Sphagnum also seems to have other properties - you can find references to microelements and various other compounds which may or may not turn out to have a medical benefit. Amphibians kept long-term on nothing but peat have had calcium balance problems, but as reptiles have thicker & less permeable skin I'd think it would be less of a problem, but the pathogenesis of reptile calcium imbalances is kind of a pain. I've seen it even in animals kept on a good diet with UV light supplementation. You'd certainly need to keep the waterdish clean - the second you start acidifying the water you run the risk of increasing risk to calcium imbalances for the same reason the excessive phosphoric acid intake from drinking pop contributes to osteoporosis.
So you could certainly use one or both, with or without sand, depending on what you want, but if you want cheap and easy I'd use something else. Seriously though - if money is such a concern you're having trouble picking a bedding, what are you going to do if your tegu gets sick? Are you sure you'll have enough money for proper lighting, housing and food for the rest of the animal's life?
Joined: Jul 16, 2005 Posts: 69 Location: corby, england
Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:49 pm Post subject:
thanx
my money problem is that i'm a self employed painter just after christmas and i don't get holiday pay so you could say it is bad timing. in a month i could buy whatever substrate no problem but rite now i have to watch things a little. after all i have bills to pay and falling behind is not an option.
i guess newspaper would be fine but i still have only 30% humidity
a good substrate could have helped things a lot _________________ uli
if you don't eat your meat you can't have any pudding
how can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat
If this is just a baby tegu wouldnt shredded aspen from the petstore be sufficient for quite awhile? Im using it temporarily because of a mite outbreak but I actually like it alot more then cypress mulch(not as splintery)..I can get huge bags(4 cubic square feet ,of course, its compressed right now) for 12.00 at petsmart. Anyway I put it in my 4x2 enclosure at least 2inches deep and barely made a dent in the bag..Also its easy to spot clean so last along time between changes..
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