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Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 521 Location: Chicago, IL
Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:26 am Post subject: Your opinion on wild animals
Hey, sorry if this is in the wrong forum, I didn't really know where to put it. I just wanted to know everyone's opinion on capturing a wild animal and putting it in a cage for the rest of it's life vs. "caging" a captive bred animal. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions so please do not start any "fights", we can all be mature about this, so please do so. An opinion cannot be right or wrong, so just let everyone think what they believe is right, is right. Thank you in advance for your input. _________________ -Art-
I am strongly opposed to wild-caught pets. I don't know if my tegu was wild caught or not and buying him was sortof an impulse decision, I am usually a lot more careful about finding out where an animal came from.
No matter what species and how good the captive care, it must be terrible to be suddenly confined after a lifetime of freedom. Captive born animals don't know what they're missing so its easier on them.
I think its rather sick how wild-caught reptiles are still sought after, especially Asian species. The way they are captured and transported is very inhumane, and many species are declining rapidly, mostly due to habitat loss but collection for the pet trade doesnt' help either.
I believe that taking animals from the wild should stop, especially for reasons so frivalous as someone wanting a weird pet. I used to go to a turtle forum but I was sickened at how everyone wanted unusual turtles to be imported for them...matamatas and fly river turtles especially...with no concern for the animals or how many would die during transport and capture. They justified it with "we plan on breeding them". There are enough captive-bred species these days to satisfy everyones needs and desires. Only professional institutions who have a serious interest in breeding rare species and re-introducing them to the wild should be allowed to take specimens from the wild.
Joined: Feb 16, 2005 Posts: 50 Location: San Jose CA
Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:57 pm Post subject:
i agree with grim in that wild animals shouldnt be imported to be pets and this includes catching native animals to sell or keep not only is it stressful for the animal but animals that are imported tend to be cheap for people to get making them animals that people disscard often like green iggys niles and savannahs all those animals are imported all are cheap and most people that buy them buy them out of impulse now if someone really wanted a uncommon reptile chances are that someone somewhere breeds them so just take a little extra time to find a breeder the animal you get from them will be better started then a wild caught one
Yeah, wild caught needs to quickly be a way of the past. I was 19 and found an neat little snake in the foundation of a house my parents were having built. I thought it was a rattler as it was buzzing it's tail, i nudged it into a box with a broom and looked it up in a book. It turned out to be an eastern hognose, and not a pigmy rattler. Some wildlife capture guy caught wind of the find and offered me a ball python and a redtail boa hea had captured from someones property for the thing...i thought, "cool, i'm getting 2 big constrictors for the local snake i found that only eats toads anyway". I felt so guilty when i started studying conservation and learned of how these hognoses are becoming rare in the wild due to habitat loss (e.g. yuppie subdivisions in Florida) and idiots like my former self who kept wild finds.
The biggest problem with this argument is that it's hypocritical from the beginning, there is no "stance" that can be taken that isn't a falsehood unto itself. If you are in favour of keeping reptiles as pets, then by association, you support taking animals from the wild because someone, sometime, had to take an animal from the wild in order to breed it and establish a captive bred population. Whereas if you aren't in support of taking animals from the wild to be put into captivity, why do you practice the hobby of exotic pet keeping? So the true argument would be either you support taking animals from the wild, or you don't support exotic pet keeping at all.
Whereas I am not in favour of the average person taking animals from the wild, there are exceptions. Contrary to Reddevil's unpunctuated position, the number of species currently kept and bred in captivity is actually quite small to what is out in the wild. I can think of many animals I wish to do research with which are not available from any breeder anywhere in the world. Hence, the necessity to use wild specimens as a resource.
That being said, I do believe the pet trade should limit itself to captive bred specimens. It is quite true that the pet trade has decimated wild populations of some animals, a rather abominable act. But as for the cry of "breeding for conservation", well, that's pretty much a load of manure. Rarely do individuals take on such a task - they may claim it, but rarely if ever does a private individual release their animals to repopulate an area, primarily because most places have regulations banning such activities. If anything, what these people do is pass around their animals so that others do not take advantage of wild populations.
The bigger issue, in my opinion, is whether people should be allowed to have exotic pets in the first place. I am against outright banning of such activity, but at the same time, I'd also argue that the average reptile hobbyist should not have their pets as they are clearly too ignorant of the animals' needs and there is a rather disturbing frequency of animals suffering at the hands of their caretaker despite their best intentions. I believe pet keeping (and having kids) should be regulated and controlled, until such a time as one can demonstrate that they not only know the correct way to care for an animal and have the means to properly do so, they shouldn't be allowed to.
Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 521 Location: Chicago, IL
Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:02 am Post subject:
You guys all make some very good and strong points and tupinambis you have quite the position on that. , The reason I brought this topic up was because when I thought about it, I wasn't really sure where I stood, for I don't like the idea of wild animals being taken out of their natural habitats for the pleasure of some person to just basically scare the crap out of them for the rest of their short lived life. But then there are captive bred animals which I want to say is okay in my opinion to keep such for the fact that even if I am against caging animals, the ones I own basically had me making one of two choices. One being that they could live with me and I can make sure I can give them the best possible life I can, or two take the chance of them ending up with someone that doesn't know what they are doing and doesn't really care to learn what they are doing and ends up killing the poor animal. I know I can't save all animals which I have learned, the hard way... but I've tried and I will continue to do what I can for the animals that have no hope for a wild life ever in their time. _________________ -Art-
At first, I was against it. Then the more you think about it, in order to have captive bread animals, you need to.
Which brings me to my point, If it wasnt for Bert capturing a bunch of tegus, none of us would have ours, so Bert is one of the biggest violators of the wild caught animal idea out there. But we tend to think of him as a pioneer more than anything else.
In Bert's case though, he re-enacted their natural conditions amazingly, and I feel that at that point, wild caught animals begins to become more acceptable. There may be some stress involved in the capture and transporting, but how many tegus in Bert's breeding grounds do you really think knew the difference between home and being "in captivity"
Bear in mind also that without some new bloodlines coming at at intervals, all of our pet herps would quickly become inbred and possibly suffer hideous genetic problems. To keep the pet trade going for a relatively rare species relies on wild caught animals.
Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 521 Location: Chicago, IL
Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:59 pm Post subject:
And from the last two posts, that's why I am for it, but also against it for other reasons... That is basically why I just try to keep my mouth shut when others mention it... I just try to keep my opinions on it to myself so I don't create an argument... _________________ -Art-
well, yeah i guess thats true if you have exotic pets then yes you are supporting the wild animal trade in some way. but i think people should only buy captive bred animals, these days there is no need for wild caught ones.
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, The reason I brought this topic up was because when I thought about it, I wasn't really sure where I stood, for I don't like the idea of wild animals being taken out of their natural habitats for the pleasure of some person to just basically scare the crap out of them for the rest of their short lived life. But then there are captive bred animals which I want to say is okay in my opinion to keep such for the fact that even if I am against caging animals, the ones I own basically had me making one of two choices. One being that they could live with me and I can make sure I can give them the best possible life I can, or two take the chance of them ending up with someone that doesn't know what they are doing and doesn't really care to learn what they are doing and ends up killing the poor animal. I know I can't save all animals which I have learned, the hard way... 
but I've tried and I will continue to do what I can for the animals that have no hope for a wild life ever in their time.
