Hatchling Nile monitor.

rico58 · Member Joined: Feb 11, 2005 Posts: 25

I have a question on my hatchling Nile monitor. I purchased him around August the 8th. He did great for around three weeks or more and suddenly stopped eating so I asked varnyard if he might know what to do. So he said he was probably wild caught and I found out he was. So I took varnyards advice and de-wormed for two days on pancur. My Vet told me to wait two weeks and then do it again. But in the meantime he will not eat on his on???? Any ideas your help would be appreciated.
P.S. the nearest reptile vet is 80 miles away. rico58.

nicolerussell · Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:42 am Post subject:

rico what are your:
1) basking temps
2) cage size
3) bulb wattage
4) substrate
5) what are you attempting to feed him?
6) what are you measuring temps with? (a gun or a dial?)
_________________
Yours,
NiColeRuSSell

"I'm gonna do what I should've done in the first place. I'll find her, wherever she is, tie her up, torture her... until she likes me again."
-Spike

worleygurl · Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:22 am Post subject:

I am not a vet, and have ZERO experience with Nile Monitors but I will tell you that anytime I deworm any animal in my house, whether it be mammal or reptile, I always use acidopholiz++ in conjunction with the dewormer. Dewormer, like antibiotics, kill EVERYTHING, good, bad, and ugly. It messes with the balance of gut flora. I would highly recommend getting some nutribac from the pet store or acidopholiz++ from Wal Mart and dosing him with it. It is a probiotic and will help restore the natural gut flora, thereby stimulating his appetite. I am not saying this is his only problem, but it can certainly go a long way in helping.
_________________
Kris, Herps they're not just a hobby, they're a way of life!

rico58 · Member Joined: Feb 11, 2005 Posts: 25

Thanks worley girl.

rico58 · Member Joined: Feb 11, 2005 Posts: 25

tegulevi · Respected Member Joined: Mar 10, 2005 Posts: 489

[/quote]1.120 to 135F.
2. 30 gal. aguarium.
3. Basking light 75 watt.
4. Cypress mulch.
5. Chicken, beef heart, bolied egg, and pinkie mice.
6. Infared temp gun. 135F basking, ambient temp. of cool side 80F. Hot side 90F.

eradi · Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:15 am Post subject:

Does he appear to be gaping, or keeping his mouth open at all?
Also check to see if there is any mucus in his mouth or nostril area.
Almost all Niles are imported which can be very stressful. When stressed
out their immune system is compromised and the bacteria and germs that are normally kept in check get the better of them. Two common maladies
of imported monitors are respiratory infections and digestive tract infections. Neither can be treated with panacure, flagyl, etc. My black throat had what I thought to be an RI and turned out to be digestive tract
infection. The symptoms were very similar. I am not a vet, however I would recommend taking the little guy to the vet.
What type of basking light do you have? I know there is much debate about monitors and whether or not they need UV lighting. My personal
opinion is that UV lighting should be used and my vet is a firm believer in UV light for any reptile monitors included.
Good luck and keep us posted!
_________________
1.1.0 B/W Argentine Tegu
0.0.1 Red Tegu

nicolerussell · Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:29 am Post subject:

I agree with worley girl 100%. I buy my probiotics at reptileuv.com but other places sell it under other names...it really does help.
Also with the basking temps the way they are and the animal on a deworming program, it's quite possible he is dehydrated. Pinch his skin..does it stay rather stiff?
I would soak the animal in lukearm water each morning....and make a slurry of probiotics, quality dry dog food (like science diet) and pedialyte (non flavored...for electrolyes). Feed twice a day with a syringe(diabetic size if the animal is as small as I am imagining)...once in the morning and once in the afternoon.
Bringing up the humidity would be a good idea as well.
Do you keep the substrate moist?
The member who suggested dirt was correct. It olds moisture and allows the animal to tunnel the way it's meant to
_________________
Yours,
NiColeRuSSell

"I'm gonna do what I should've done in the first place. I'll find her, wherever she is, tie her up, torture her... until she likes me again."
-Spike

nicolerussell · Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:37 am Post subject:

There is a guy over at RTB who has some monitor experience--I gave him a link to this thread to see if he had any other advice.
_________________
Yours,
NiColeRuSSell

"I'm gonna do what I should've done in the first place. I'll find her, wherever she is, tie her up, torture her... until she likes me again."
-Spike

dachande · New Member Joined: Sep 15, 2006 Posts: 1

hi. thanks nicole. never even knew about this site.

to start i would say that with the right temps, monitors can burn out internal parasites. so keeping the basking surface over 130F will burn out an infestation. pancur and other de-wormers are an absolute last result with monitors. they have strong immune systems and a strong will to survive. one of the problems found with treatmenst is they can also kill beneficial bacteria in the animals intestines. so you are not only killing off parasites and harmful bacteria, but the good stuff as well that aids in digestion. not all intestinal flora are bad. it's kind of like termites and the bacteria they have to help break down food. without it, the termites die. same applies here. so i'd stop the medication and do what usually works, address maintenance and husbandry issues.
switch from the mulch to plain old dirt. cypress is a good 2nd choice. but works better with water monitors. common niles are found on dirt and sand mix. ornates would be okay on the mulch as they are more of a forest dwelling nile and come in contact with debris and leaf litter. if you ever notice those shows about the nile river, most of the year it doesn't have much around it except dirt and sand. only in the middle to southern regions does vegetation grow along the banks like rivers here. the farther south you go, the thicker the trees and vegetation gets. and this is where ornate niles are found but dirt is the #1 substrate of varanids. being on a deep soil substrate will allow the monitor to burrow and acquire better humidity. so switch to soil and make it deep. at least 10 inches minimum.

only offer whole prey. beef heart, chicken livers and ground turkey do not offer the essential vitamins and minerals. the aforementioned "alternative foods" do not offer bone, hair/feather for ruffage and other organs and tissue that you will find with a whole mouse or chick. therefore they have to be supplemented like insects; and you still don't get as healthy of a diet as a whole mouse or chick. these "alternates" acan also cause blockage and constipation. check to see if the nile is still defecating. getting insects back in the diet will give it ruffage to helps clean out it's tract. and seeing as it's still a hatchling/juvenile; i would get alot more insects into the diet with the pinky mice and do away with anything you buy at a grocery store. it won't be long before even a giant hissing roach will be switche dto vertebrate prey. don't forget to supplement those bugs too. they offer alot, but farmed insect diet cannot mimic free ranging, wild insects and their gut content. and feeding wild caught insects poses several risks of parasites and insecticides. so don't collect wild bugs for food. just supplement the farm rasied bugs. i personally prefer
Miner-All I because it gives you more than just calcium.
as mentioned screen tops can cause rapid heat and humidity loss. try covering 3/4s of the screen with tin foil. i have kept ackies and varanus tristis with screen tops. but even though humidity requirements are less, i still soaked down the enclosures once a week and heat was not a problem; as they are in my reptile room and it never gets below 80F in the summer months with low 70sF being my lowest winter temps. they also have more than 10 inches of soil. the ackies have 1ft under them to burrow in.

forget about UV. outdoor halogen flood lamps produce some UV and if the right diet is offerred, it will get D3 and other nutrients from it's whole prey. snakes do not require any special light. and they get what's needed form whole foods. monitors consume prey whole as well so therefore do not require "special UV bulbs".
want to know a secret? i have raised, bred and reproduced healthy bearded dragons with GE outdoor halogen floodlights. i may catch a little flack, but it is proven as i personally know of other keepers that practice the same techniques as myself with same or better results. you just have to be on top of your game concerning diet and supplementation. i will note that my hatchling dragons get 15 minutes a week on sat/sun so they do get full UV once a week. mostly so they are used to being taken from the cage, and you can't beat the sun. it works better than any bulbs and it's free!
dragon light requirements are far beyond that of monitors. so don't rush out to buy a full spectrum light bulb and fixture. instead just go grab a GE 45-50W OUTDOOR HALOGEN FLOODLIGHT. make sure it is just that. spotilghts concentrate heat and light into one area, and indoor bulbs will blow if it gets wet while misting/spraying. accept no substitutes.

last but not least; don't always trust a vet. not to bash 'em and let a few bad apple sspoilthe bunch; but i've seen them do more harm than good before. there's a paticular situation of an associate with a fenic fox where the vet proved he doesn't know everything he claims. he was trying to rehydrate her and called the owner saying "she just passes it through. i can't figure out why she's not holding any fluids."
the owner explained, "because she's a fenic fox. they're from egypt and get maybe a tablespoon of water in a years time. she's not built to hold water. all you are doing is flushing out her system. it still helps. but i'll be in tomorrow to pick her up."
this is a case where the owner knew more than the proclaimed "professional". and this guy is supposed to be the best around here for exotics. actually "specializes in exotics". i know of other incidents as well. they don't know everything, and sometimes get behind when new info comes out. and alot of new info has been coming through concerning monitors within the past 2 years. they may not have been updated yet. they have alot to keep up with, especially those that do more than just dogs and cats. but if one of my animals gets sick or shows signs of decline, i e-mail and call the expert keepers (and in no way do i claim to be an expert; just experienced) and get their advice and tips. 9 times out of 10 it is a husbandry issue and can be corrected before it's too late and vets are needed. the vet is the last person i think of unless i need medication and only an MD can get it.
i hope this helps and sheds some light to help get your nile on the right track. i have worked with them through rescue and kept different sizes in my home for years. they get a bad rap, but once you understand the monitor lizards, you will find the rewards to having one in your home.