theTegu.com - Tegu information, photo gallery, forums, caresheets, diet & nutritional info, taming tips and more for the argentine black and white tegu, argentine red tegu, blue tegu, colombian black tegu and the colombian gold-phased black tegu. Tupinambis merianea, teguixin & rufescens.
uh, darn!? anyways i remembered the other word i couldn't pronounce, Varanid, varanus an dthose monitor related ones too.....i have a lot ot learn...........
Colin, you sure don't like being proven wrong do you?
When have you proven me wrong? You rarely respond to any hard facts I have presented, instead you niggle at your own assumptions and typically resort to character assassination attempts as your means of justification. Any statements I have made I have backed up with evidence, either mathematical, visual, or reference. I don't go about spouting "my reputation, my reputation, my reputation!!!!". In science, people who demand their views are sufficient enough because of their reputation are seen as blowhards and braggarts. Views are asked to be backed up with evidence, such as either direct data or references of peer reviewed material. Such as this one:
Kruger, J., & D.Dunning, 1999. Unskilled and unaware of it: how difficulties in recognizing one's own incompetence lead to inflated self-assessments. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 77(6):1121-1134.
It then allows the audience to check to see if what the author/speaker is claiming is indeed true. A very valuable resource for debating.
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I might add I have been to your album. There is no pictures in it of two or more nesting females.
My lord, you have finally done it. You proved me wrong. I assumed you weren't myopic, and your statement now indicates that would likely be the case. My apologies. Look in the pen right in the foreground, Bobby. Towards the left corner there is a light male facing the camera, in the corner opposite the camera is a nearly all black female laying tangential to the camera direction, and just right of her, where her snout is pointing, is a coiled up female. C'mon, Varnyard, I would have expected "you probably just threw two females together, snapped your photo, and then separated them just to be difficult!". I present for the audience it's not me who can't stand to be "proven wrong". It's not me saying that the behaviour I see is what all tegus display, without variance.
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And you keep saying OUR breeding project. Who exactly is OUR?
A) What does it matter? So you can then go assault them?
B) If you had been paying attention (forgive me for assuming so), I would have thought the main player was obvious - Augusto Shinya Abe. There are other scientists involved, Denis de Andrade and Celio Haddade(although Celio is primarily just an amphibian guy) who also run it. As well as lots of other students, and other scientists come down to do their work there because of the animals and facilities present.
I suggest that someone's moderator status be reviewed.
Now on to something more sane...
Daggit-Columbian, years ago I would have felt the same thing. However, with experience and training, I found I have a decent knack at dissection and surgery. It is gruesome, but I find one of the best ways to really understand and appreciate an organism and how it funtions is to see how they are put together.
As far as pronounciation of sciency words, it used to be quite simple and has kind of gotten difficult, I have to admit. Scientific classification was originally recognized as basically being bastardized Latin, and therefore Latin pronounciation was the rule (absence of certain long vowels, no soft 'c's, etc.). However, more and more it has evolved to include geocentric pronounciations and other languages' influence. You think these are hard, try bending your head around some of the dinosaurs coming out of China. Gives me a headache. But, with these, phonetically:
Teiidae - tay-ih-day
Tupinambis - too-pin-ahm-bis
merianae - mare-ee-ahn-aye
rufescens - roo-fes-kens
teguixin - tay-you-ee-sheen (this one's a little different as it's based from Brazilian Portuguese)
Last edited by tupinambis on Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total
[quote="tupinambis"]Now on to something more sane...quote]
Wahaaooo i was called sane, oh man, just wait till my psycologist hears about this!!!!!! LOL Thanks i will work on saying those correctly, wow i was saying them totally wrong..
-j
BTW- These are the differences between two types of people, a breeder, and a scientist are two VERY different jobs one involving a reputation and quality animal output(varnyard) and the other cold hrd facts and a certain preciseness (tupinambis)
Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 1164 Location: panamacity florida
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:18 pm Post subject:
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A) What does it matter? So you can then go assault them?
B) If you had been paying attention (forgive me for assuming so), I would have thought the main player was obvious - Augusto Shinya Abe. There are other scientists involved, Denis de Andrade and Celio Haddade(although Celio is primarily just an amphibian guy) who also run it. As well as lots of students and other scientists come down to do their work there because of the animals and facilities present.
So the truth be told they are not YOUR TEGUS at all. You just went down for a little U.S. Government funded, via UBC Department of Zoology
look-see. Correct?
Being the big man on deck I figured I would see your name in lights on this one.
http://www.zoology.ubc.ca/~milsom/RecentWork.html
Seasonal changes in daily metabolic patterns of tegu lizards (Tupinambis merianae) placed in the cold (17ºC) and dark
William K. Milsom, Denis V. Andrade, Simone P. Brito, Luis F. Toledo, Tobias Wang and Augusto S. Abe
Guess I was wrong. I guess that is because you are a student or a MSc Candidate at the (UBC) Department of Zoology and not a actual scientist. Correct?
I hate to burst your bubble Daggit_Columbian, but he is just a student rather than a scientist. _________________ www.tegu.com and www.Varnyard-herps-inc.com
So the truth be told they are not YOUR TEGUS at all. You just went down for a little U.S. Government funded, via UBC Department of Zoology
look-see. Correct?
Like I have said all along, if Varnyard doesn't get his way, he resorts to character assassination.
Truth? No, that isn't the truth. Some of the tegus are mine. Did I claim I owned the facility. Never. Did I claim I was the big man at the facility. No. Did I go down there for a little U.S. Government funded look-see. No. Your government had nothing to do with it, and the fact that you think so shows your biased view of the world. I wouldn't call living down there for about 2 years and doing research on tegus a "little look-see" either. It is far more than you've done, though.
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Being the big man on deck I figured I would see your name in lights on this one.
That's because your limitations are so severe. I never claimed to be an author on all work done, nor do I claim to have a hand in all tegu work, or that I'm "the big man on deck". Any statement of such is proposterous, and someone thinking so only goes to show their woefully unenlightened status. There have been researchers before me who worked on tegus, there are going to be many researchers after me who are going to work on tegus. I did not do any of the work involved in that paper, big whoop. I do personally know everyone authored there, but it doesn't mean anything either. However, unlike you, I have at least read and understood that paper. But, if we take your example, that beings as my name isn't on that one paper, my status is void, lets look at the entire peer reviewed literature base on Tupinambis......hmmn, no Bobby Hill or Varnyard. I guess by your own criteria here that means you are a nobody? Not my criteria, but yours.
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Guess I was wrong. I guess that is because you are a student or a MSc Candidate at the (UBC) Department of Zoology and not a actual scientist. Correct?
I do have a degree, and that's a lot more than you. I have never denied I'm a student. In fact, anyone that has ever asked me about such without being a self-important twit I have always told so. I do research, I publish that research and share it with other scientists for their perspectives and insights. I admit, I haven't published much, but I have still got a massive pile of data I'm working on. I get paid to do my research. I would call that being a scientist. And yes, I am a student. I hope to be so for the rest of my life. A student is someone who learns, and I plan on spending the rest of my existence doing so.
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See, I am more than able to learn.
Your diatribes on here prove otherwise. The only thing you have learned was back on the elementary school playground. The rest of us have left those tactics back there where they belong and grew up. You didn't learn this information, you had someone point it out to you, and in your infinite wisdom the only thing you could think of doing with it is to try smearing someone else's reputation with it. Congratulations, you show great talent. Can't prove him wrong, so prove he shouldn't be believed because he's black/Jewish/a student/drives a Miata/eats goat cheese. I don't care about my reputation, that is unimportant to me. I'd rather people learn and do some critical thinking of their own. Like I've always said, I have the data to back up my claims and have put it forward for all to see.
Again, I STRONGLY suggest Varnyard's status as a moderator be reviewed.
Last edited by tupinambis on Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total
Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 1164 Location: panamacity florida
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject:
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tupinambis wrote:
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So the truth be told they are not YOUR TEGUS at all. You just went down for a little U.S. Government
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funded, via UBC Department of Zoology
look-see. Correct?
Like I have said all along, if Varnyard doesn't get his way, he resorts to character assassination.
Truth? No, that isn't the truth. Some of the tegus are mine. Did I claim I owned the facility. Never. Did I claim I was the big man at the facility. No. Did I go down there for a little U.S. Government funded look-see. No. Your government had nothing to do with it. I wouldn't call living down there for 2 years and doing research on tegus a "little look-see" either. It is far more than you've done, though.
That is not a proven fact though, is it?
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Being the big man on deck I figured I would see your name in lights on this one.
That's because your limitations are so severe. I never claimed to be an author on all work done, nor do I claim to have a hand in all tegu work. Any statement of such is proposterous, and someone thinking so only goes to show their woefully unenlightened status. There have been researchers before me who worked on tegus, there are going to be many researchers after me who are going to work on tegus. I did not do any of the work involved in that paper, big whoop. I do personally know everyone authored there, but it doesn't mean anything either. However, unlike you, I have at least read and understood that paper. But, if we take your example, that beings as my name isn't on that one paper, my status is void, lets look at the entire peer reviewed literature base on Tupinambis......hmmn, no Bobby Hill or Varnyard. I guess by your own criteria here that means you are a nobody? Not my criteria, but yours.
Oh you can look anywhere, I am well known in the reptile community. Maybe you should have picked your fights a little better or at least done your home work!! A simple broser search will work, just type in Varnyard, you will get your answers.
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Guess I was wrong. I guess that is because you are a student or a MSc Candidate at the (UBC) Department of Zoology and not a actual scientist. Correct?
I do have a degree, and that's a lot more than you. I have never denied I'm a student. In fact, anyone that has ever asked me about such without being a self-important twit I have always told so. I do research, I publish that research and share it with other scientists for their perspectives and insights. I admit, I haven't published much, but I have still got a massive pile of data I'm working on. I get paid to do my research. I would call that being a scientist. And yes, I am a student. I hope to be so for the rest of my life. A student is someone who learns, and I plan on spending the rest of my existence doing so.
And I was keeping as well as raising reptiles long before you wore your first diaper.
I also did not see you setting the record straight when people call you something your not, like a scientist. You could have said you were a student, but chose not to.
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See, I am more than able to learn.
Your diatribes on here prove otherwise. The only thing you have learned was back on the elementary school playground. The rest of us have left those tactics back there where they belong and grew up. You didn't learn this information, you had someone point it out to you, and in your infinite wisdom the only thing you could think of doing with it is to try smearing someone else's reputation with it. Congratulations, you show great talent. Can't prove him wrong, so prove he shouldn't be believed because he's black/Jewish/a student/drives a Miata/eats goat cheese. I don't care about my reputation, that is unimportant to me. I'd rather people learn and do some critical thinking of their own. Like I've always said, I have the data to back up my claims and have put it forward for all to see.
Just how am I smearing your reputation? I do think you need to stay in school, you have a lot to learn.
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Again, I STRONGLY suggest Varnyard's status as a moderator be reviewed.
I suggest you pick your fights a little better and grow up. And I should be pulled as a Moderator for what? Because you don't like getting the same crap you dish out? As moma said many times, don't dish it out if you can not take it. _________________ www.tegu.com and www.Varnyard-herps-inc.com
Again, your talent at vagueness is astounding. What is not a proven fact?
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Oh you can look anywhere, I am well known in the reptile community. Maybe you should have picked your fights a little better or at least done your home work!! A simple broser search will work, just type in Varnyard, you will get your answers.
Reputation reputation reputation!!! Isn't it somewhere in a CoffeeCrisp commercial that a small child says with wisdom "Just because you say it, doesn't make it true"? In case you haven't noticed yet, the internet is full of misinformation. The fact that you have got a bunch of stuff on the internet means jack squat. The fact that one can find some of your stuff out there and your name on forums means jack squat. Anyone can, and does, post anything they want on the internet, doesn't make it true or even valuable. I could post that feeding tegus raw uranium ore will make them grow up big and healthy, produce 2000 eggs per clutch, and promotes intelligence. Doesn't make it true. You are known in the PET reptile community, that's all. I admit you have (probably) good husbandry skills and have kept a number of reptiles successfully. You think what you've got out there is so valuable, but you know what? No scientist uses the internet for their data source, primarily because it is mostly junk. And if you go back and actually read what I said, I claimed peer reviewed literature, ie. first account research articles. Your name comes up nowhere where it would count scientifically. So, yes, I did my homework. Had you done yours, you would have realized there's a difference between self-aggrandizement and peer reviewed publications.
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And I was keeping as well as raising reptiles long before you wore your first diaper.
First, I'm quite interested in seeing how old you think I am.
However, I don't doubt your statement one bit. And what makes that statement so pitifully sad, is that you've been keeping and raising them for so long, and have learned so little.
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I also did not see you setting the record straight when people call you something your not, like a scientist. You could have said you were a student, but chose not to.
Your statement here only further emphasizes how woefully ignorant you are about academics. I do science research, I am paid to do science, I teach science, I go to scientific conferences to exchange ideas, information and get new perspectives, I have also been asked to review others' work and contribute my ideas to journals. How is this not being a scientist? If you actually went to a respectful university and asked about, you'd find that the vast majority of the research is conducted and written up by the graduate students. Professors mainly guide and direct things. ALL are considered scientists in the process. Or how about the paper you brought up. Would you call all the authors of that paper "a scientist"? That's interesting, because a number of those were only M.Sc. students, same as me, when the work for that paper was done.
I am not a professor, nor have I made any insinuations that I was. And for the record, I have told anyone who wasn't being a self-important twit that asked that I was a student. But let's take your point. So I'm a student. By being a student, I guess that means (or at least you are insinuating) that nothing I've said should be believed or respected. Ok, then what does that mean about you? You haven't got a degree at all, are not a student, by this same criteria it invalidatess anything you say. You are so busy flinging feces and shouting "look! look everyone! He has feces on him!" that you've failed to notice everyone is staring at you in disbelief because you're rooting around in your own underwear with your barehands to find said feces.
Face it. You cannot attack the data I've presented, so the only way you see to save face is to attack my character. And yet the way you go about it, you fail to see that you are also undermining your own credibility.
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Just how am I smearing your reputation? I do think you need to stay in school, you have a lot to learn.
The proof is directly above. And yes, I plan to stay in school. I plan to continue learning all I can. The day one stops learning is the day one should "hang up their hat". Learning is EXACTLY what being a scientist is all about.
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I suggest you pick your fights a little better and grow up. And I should be pulled as a Moderator for what? Because you don't like getting the same crap you dish out? As moma said many times, don't dish it out if you can not take it.
You see, this is exactly what I'm getting at. I haven't picked any fight. You have posted material of which a fair bit of it was conjectured and erroneous (although some of it was true and I've always admitted so) but was presented as hard fact. I stepped in and presented what was hard fact to correct those errors, and YOU respond by fighting. In fact, in this particular thread, I fully acknowledged what you see as probable, but that we see something different in our pens. For this, you started a fight. Quite frankly, if I do say so (and the private messages I've been receiving seem to back me up) I am taking your "beating" well and haven't suffered for it.
I suggest your status as moderator be revoked because you clearly are not "moderating". Your approach to this forum has been that if anyone contradicts you (which is mainly me, admittedly), they are to be smacked down. You have rarely acknowledged anything as being a valid point in and of itself, instead your position has been to slander and attack. This isn't the action of a moderator, it's the action of a dictator.
Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 1164 Location: panamacity florida
Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:22 am Post subject:
What I see is grounds for a deleted post, that is what I see. You temper tantrum speaks volumes about yourself. With statements like:
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that you've failed to notice everyone is staring at you in disbelief because you're rooting around in your own underwear with your barehands to find said feces.
And lets not miss this one:
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I have told anyone who wasn't being a self-important twit that asked that I was a student.
I might add, I found out without your help. So do tell the truth.
With statements like this you are asking for your post to be deleted.
But you are so right. You have studied tegus for two years, and now a well known expert/student in your field. The truth would be you have not even been around tegus long enough to see one reach adulthood. It takes three years for this process.
I will say this, what do you think, a reputation means nothing? You need to learn that reputation goes much farther then these forums, it goes with you everywhere in life.
You do have a lot to learn. When you get well over 30 years in reptiles then maybe you will have learned what I am talking about. 2 years is far from close.
I will say you have brought out some good points as well. The part about tegus urinating on the nest. I knew it was more moist than the ground around it. However I did not smell it to see if it was urine.
There are also a few other good points as well. And yet others that I know are not so.
If you are such a expert that has nothing left to learn, then why fallow me around the forums on every answer given? Why don't you just post all of this expert advice? Or is it that you are just looking for a argument? _________________ www.tegu.com and www.Varnyard-herps-inc.com
I might add, I found out without your help. So do tell the truth.
Who claimed I told you? Certainly not me. However, we both know you didn't uncover this by yourself.
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With statements like this you are asking for your post to be deleted.
And your crass statements and harassment don't?
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But you are so right. You have studied tegus for two years, and now a well known expert/student in your field. The truth would be you have not even been around tegus long enough to see one reach adulthood. It takes three years for this process.
Hahaha , seriously, keep jumping to those unfounded conclusions, they serve you well. You keep reading into statements that which hasn't been said. I spent 2 years studying tegu hibernation in detail in Brazil, roughly 6 years or more studying them in general, scientifically. I have been keeping, breeding, and working with tegus since the late 80's. Next....
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I will say this, what do you think, a reputation means nothing? You need to learn that reputation goes much farther then these forums, it goes with you everywhere in life.
You do have something of a point there, I cannot deny. But thankfully, I don't rely upon forums for my reputation. My peers are more concerned over the quality of my work and my ability to comprehend developing research.
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You do have a lot to learn. When you get well over 30 years in reptiles then maybe you will have learned what I am talking about. 2 years is far from close.
I agree, I do have a lot to learn. And like I said before, if you think it's only been 2 years.....well, it does show you are way off in thinking you know me. I learned what you are talking about a long time ago, passed that point, and moved ahead. Some of us have steeper learning curves.
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The part about tegus urinating on the nest. I knew it was more moist than the ground around it. However I did not smell it to see if it was urine.
Thankfully, I didn't have to. Nor did I have the whimsy to think they regurgitated on their eggs....
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And yet others that I know are not so.
You keep saying so, and so far the only thing I've seen that you've shown where I was wrong was in assuming you weren't myopic. Please, do tell on what points I was wrong and please provide the references that back up that information. Remember, "I know" is not a reference. If you won't accept it from others, then you can't expect them to accept it from you.
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If you are such a expert that has nothing left to learn, then why fallow me around the forums on every answer given? Why don't you just post all of this expert advice? Or is it that you are just looking for a argument?
And where on earth did you pull up this little nugget? It has never been me to claim I have nothing left to learn, in fact if you actually looked at what I've said, I've said the exact opposite. I have a lot left to learn, and hope to continue learning for the rest of my life. I've also denied in other posts of being "an expert", simply because an expert usually thinks there's nothing left to learn. They tend to think their reputations are all that are needed to back up their statements.
Neither do I follow you around the forums on every answer given. I've stated often enough I have no interest in such things as how to tame your tegu or the best way to train them to do things like use a litter box. I humbly leave those forums to those of you who have greater interests in those matters than I. My interests are in their biology, natural history and helping people not be misinformed on those.
I'm not looking for an argument, but if someone wants to tell me that my facts are nonsense without any kind of reliable evidence to back them up, then yes, I'm going to be assertive and defend my stance.
The funniest thing about all this is I've given you the opportunity to completely and meaningfully prove my research is bunk and that I am spouting crap, and yet you haven't taken it. Remember? I've offered to fly you out at my own expense to personally scrutinize the data and present your findings to a scientific committee, same as I have to do, on the caveat that if you cannot do so, you have to refund all my expenses on the matter. I think it's pretty clear that I'm prepared to "put my money where my mouth is", but you are not. I wonder why that is.....
So, don't disappoint, Varnyard. Against Rick's wishes/regulations, you've made this very personal. There is an audience out there dying to read your scathing response. Or better yet, demonstrate your hyprocrisy as you so often have threatened...
Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 1164 Location: panamacity florida
Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:36 am Post subject:
So, it is that you are just looking for a argument. That is all you needed to say, without going into more of your long drawn out lack of class. _________________ www.tegu.com and www.Varnyard-herps-inc.com
Easy there! geez....... varnyard go easy on him, if you feel as though you are that much older than him and so much more mature, leave him be..... Tupinambis can be hot headed but like you are on freakin fire, i think everyone gets the point...........
I was just looking for Tegu Breeding Info when I stumbled on to this battle of Tegu knowledge. I have Pitbulls and Rotts and even Males that have been raised together from birth if unnuetered will end up fighting a couple times. I was very happy to hear that Varnyard is able to breed groups of males and groups of females together without conflict. If you can do that then thats what you want to be able to do regardless of who can and can't do it. But then all of Tun...'s males killed each other so it makes me a little scared. Were Varnyards raised from birth together and were T's not. Either way I like the perspectives and think its the best way to gain the knowledge needed to embark on your own breeding aspirations. But what is the final say on hibernating immediately. Can I skip the first year or two and then begin hybernating on the start of the third and expect eggs. Thanks and I wouldn't mind hearing both guys answer.
Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 1164 Location: panamacity florida
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:37 pm Post subject:
IMO, I think it has a lot to do with if the animals are tame. Mine are tame, so this could make a very large difference.
As for all of them being raised together, that would not be a factor, based on my males being at different ages. I have some that are three, yet others that are eight or more.
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LOL Thanks i will work on saying those correctly, wow i was saying them totally wrong.. 
one involving a reputation and quality animal output(varnyard) and the other cold hrd facts and a certain preciseness (tupinambis) 
, seriously, keep jumping to those unfounded conclusions, they serve you well. You keep reading into statements that which hasn't been said. I spent 2 years studying tegu 
