Sick Baby - Goomba (Argentine Red)

GoombaLover · New Member Joined: Feb 07, 2005 Posts: 5 Location: Texas

I have an Argentinian Red junvenile. We believe him to be 7 months old. A few weeks ago I noticed a dryness, cracking and bleeding from his belly. I took him to our exotics vet and his white count showed high and the blood sample got sent all over the country for analysis (7 patholigists looked at it) and they aren't sure what some of the "cells" were. He also had a high calcium & phosphate. The skin sample was unremarkable. We immediately started IM antibiotics and Silvadene creme allternated with betadine rub downs. He had spots continue to break out all over for about another week. His skin started clearing up and I got excited that we were on the right track. I took him back to the doctor after 10 days and had his levels rechecked. Now his white count is at 28000 (which is higher than originally) and his calcium and phosphate are still elevated. The dr wants to start antibiotics again, I am concerned that we aren't hitting the problem. He is now listless and isn't shedding properly. He is still eating 5-7 fuzzies every other day, but I can't get him to eat any fruits or vegetables. Please help me!!!! Sincerely, GoombaLover

Rick · Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:24 pm Post subject:

I'd wonder if the tegu just needs to get some fruits in it's diet. Perhaps the skin issue and the blood cell count are two seperate issues. For that matter, what should a healthly tegus blood cell count be at? What is a normal range for various Tupinambis species? When you originally got Goomba, did you take it to the vets for a blood workup and a physical? What were the blood cell counts and what levels were the calcium & phosphate at when you first brought Goomba home?

I have seen to many times when an 'exotic vet' didn't really know anything about one species so instead compares to another type of entirely differnet lizard. That is why you should always take a reptile to the vets before an emergancy, just so you have something to compare against later.

What is your regular monthly food items? Do you feed just rodents? Do you feed crickets? Do you feed fruits or veggies? Do you use calcium and/or vitamin D3 suppliments? If so, how often? Do you only dust the insects with calcium or do you also dust the rodents? You shouldn't dust rodents as they have the calcium and vitamins you need. If you use suppliments too often you could possibly be over doing it, explaining the high calcium & phosphate.

As far as eating fruits, try dicing some various fruits and mixing it with 93% to 99% lean ground turkey. That should help in the long term.

There are some red tegu keepers/breeders on this forum, let's see what they have to add.

Rick
theTegu.com

beardiedragon · Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:28 pm Post subject:

I am just shooting from the hip here but I would be cautious about the antibiotics. If it is a yeast infection or certain fungal infections (if I remember correctly) that could have an adverse reaction as may other sulfa drugs. I would ask the vet about nolvasan baths (chlorahexadine) mixed at 30:1.

as for eating fruit, just mix it in with some 93% fat free ground turkey.

What substrate is he on, what supplements, what type of lighting???
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Bennett

beardiedragon.com
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GoombaLover · New Member Joined: Feb 07, 2005 Posts: 5 Location: Texas

What is a normal range for various Tupinambis species?
I don't know. I was kind of hoping to find out somewhere online. That's how I found you. I was thinking of asking the vet for the names of the pathologists that looked at his sample. The dr said that at least one of them had dealt with two other tegu samples in the past.

When you originally got Goomba, did you take it to the vets for a blood workup and a physical? I have seen to many times when an 'exotic vet' didn't really know anything about one species so instead compares to another type of entirely differnet lizard.
I hate to admit this now because I'm kicking myself, but I didn't take him in before this. (I have now taken all of my pets for well visits.) I am afraid I will end up killing my baby due to poor parenting. The vet appeared to be using just a generic "lizard" profile to compare him to, that is what triggered my search online to find more specific levels for a tegu.

What is your regular monthly food items?
Goomba won't eat anything but fuzzies. I still try to feed him cricket and superworms occasionally but to no avail. I offer him veggies and fruits regularly but he doesn't touch them. I have dipped his fuzzies in Gerber Baby Foods Fruit Medley a few times and when he finally gets hungry enough he eats them. I don't use any supplements because I knew he was going to be getting plenty of calcium with all the fuzzies he eats. I have had 2 beardies now for about 2 years and they both go for anual well visits and have been wormed. I had trouble with them running high on their calcium levels so I know to watch for this.

As far as eating fruits, try dicing some various fruits and mixing it with 93% to 99% lean ground turkey.
I am on my way out now to get some ground turkey and start this process.

If it is a yeast infection or certain fungal infections (if I remember correctly) that could have an adverse reaction as may other sulfa drugs.
The antibiotic is Baytril. I don't know what test should be performed to determine if it is a fungal or yeast infection. Would either of these be systemic? I really see improvements in his physical appearance, everything seems to be internal now.

I would ask the vet about nolvasan baths (chlorahexadine) mixed at 30:1.
I am sorry I forgot to mention that we started alternating the betadine sponge down with chlorahexadine, but as I just mentioned his physical wounds have almost completely faded, it's just the white cell count that has continued to climb.

What substrate is he on?
I originally had him on Bed-A-Beast mixed with a small amount of finely sifted sand. When he started showing physical ailments I immediately switched him over to astroturf and old t-shirts (for digging and hiding in). I have to admit that I thought he was just allergic to the Bed-A-Beast and would now have great test results. Wishful thinking I guess.

what type of lighting???
I have a ReptiGlo 5.0 over his tank (along with a basking light and night light).

I really appreciate all your help.

beardiedragon · Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:57 pm Post subject:

to test for fungus you will need to take a biopsy. If it is an internal fungus that has spread to the skin or vice versa you can take a biopsy from the infected area. The Tegu will likely need to be sedated. even if the wounds heal, the fungus can still eat away at the organs and that pushes the white count up as do some parasitic infections.

Astroturf can harbour mold and fungus (when it gets wet it smells for that reason). It is also abrasive to the skin. I would stick with either newspaper or butcher paper and crumple some up to dig in.

I am curious how your vet determined high calcium, that is not a common test nor is it easy to find a place to do it. it is neccessary to test specifically for blood levels of 25-HDCC. This is much more reliable than using a standard blood panel test (which measures only calcium and phosphorus levels).

What was the white count and how did he determine it was high?
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Bennett

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Home of the Florida Orange