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Joined: Nov 30, 2006 Posts: 342 Location: Southern California
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:49 pm Post subject: Savanna Monitor "puppies"
I just wanted everyone to see this. I, in no way, admire this. She is feeding them COOKED CHICKEN, and they will associate her face and hands with food, it even bites her in this video, she should realize what she is setting up. (stitches). Just wanted people’s opinions on this.
the stupidity here just amazes me. i wonder if this woman has ever dealt with adult monitors? she is in for a nasty surprise...
i shudder whenver i hear anyone compare reptiles to puppies. you can bet some kid is going to see this video, go buy a sav., and wind up with a badly bitten face.
also, cool name for your sav, mike. the monitor of the hidden mist! lol...
Aside from future lip stitches you must admit those babies are really cute...hopefully she will learn while they are still young and only take small chunks out of her lips and fingers....
Joined: Jul 18, 2005 Posts: 340 Location: Bay Area,Ca
Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject:
lol that video and the maker of that video has been attacked on a few forums for the stupidity of it, but if you would like to tell the maker of that video they do come into the chat on this site
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:50 am Post subject: Re: Savanna Monitor "puppies"....bad idea
mike wrote:
I just wanted everyone to see this. I, in no way, admire this. She is feeding them COOKED CHICKEN, and they will associate her face and hands with food, it even bites her in this video, she should realize what she is setting up. (stitches). Just wanted people’s opinions on this.
Why do you say i'm feeding cooked chicken and why do you capitalise it? It was not cooked chicken, in any case. You don't know what it was- but i see your mouth isn't steered by facts, is it?
http://thetegu.com/postt3336.html Broodwich suggests, in response to your problem with your picky, smelly sav, that you feed it cooked chicken occasionally. Why don't you take it up with him?
Yes, they learn to associate my hand with food- just the same way you learned, as an infant, to associate a nipple with food. Do you bite nipples these days or did your learning expand beyond that? My savs not only associate my hands with food- they pry my fingers apart to get at the food. That's because they are intelligent. Intelligence is a thing that must be exercised for it to develop. You don't have to take my word for that, though.
Why do you say "it even bites her in this video"? It doesn't and the video shows that. Are you blind as well as stupid?
As you have zero facts behind your gratuitous bashing, why did you go out of your way to create the thread? Don't you know that the truth can come out and reveal you for a fool? Did you think i would be unaware of it and fail to out you? Guess again.
I see you have signed up at youtube very recently but have posted no videos- did you only sign up in order to make ignorant comments on my vids?
You said:
Quote:
zabuzathemonitor (1 week ago)
THEY WILL NOT REMEMBER THESE RULES! THEY WILL TEAR INTO YOUR FACE AND HANDS. Sorry to break it to you. I would stop now.
But you were wise enough to leave yourself a face-saving way of backing down when you said:
Quote:
I would be TRULY AMAZED to see those lizards actually remember this routine. Good luck proving me wrong. Also, what do you mean my nick?
but then you firmed up your position by stating:
Quote:
zabuzathemonitor (1 week ago)
uh....no. These are not cats or dogs. He will not understand any of the things you are "teaching" him. Eventually, the face WILL be food, and while "mistakes" might not hurt now, for a 4 foot lizard, "mistakes" might not be as tolerated by you when it breaks your nose. Again, I am sorry, but these are not dogs.
i promised a vid:
Quote:
In the next vid, Lilly will play 'pick the pinkie', selecting a pink mouse from a bouquet of look-alike, smell-alike fingertips.
What do i mean by 'change your mind or change your nick'?
I mean this: if you refuse to face the facts i present when i post the video i promised, i will make a point of shaming you, personally, for your stupidity. When you are ashamed of your stupidity and everyone on the net knows you are stupid, i'd expect you to change your nick rather than bear the burden of such a reputation. Does that help you understand?
I told you it would be a couple of weeks because i am using a borrowed camera. There is no need to nag after just 3 or 4 days but i will leave that comment up anyway just because it further establishes the pattern of your behaviour. If you want a vid sooner- send me a camera! I'll flood you with vids that show how ignorant you are.
ALL the facts in evidence have been presented by me and are irrefutable.
ALL the false statements presented by you- some IN CAPS!! (lol) will be exposed as such and you will be the owner of them for as long as you can be identified. That's why i'm inclined to expect you to change your nick- in order to hide from your shame.
By the way- this is tegu forum. Both Rick and Bobby are very proud of providing tame tegus. The expression 'Dog Tame' is used to distinguish them on the basis of their temperament. Have you seen Rick's tegu attention vid? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz5mvOpCnvI
Do you care to make an even bigger fool of yourself by bashing that?
I'm not done with you, either. Best back up and leave yourself a bolt-hole, because i know what i'm talking about and i prove it with the vids. I have found that the temperament of savs is a fairly easy prophecy to self-fulfill.
I notice you haven't posted any vids of your picky, smelly attack trained sav- why is that?
Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 403 Location: Missouri
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:40 pm Post subject:
OH and to your response on the associates food with your hand. Ill show you a video of my tegu trying to rip my hands off because I use to hand feed it. AND TEGUS ARE MORE DOCILE THAN SAVS.
ON THE tegu attention VIDEO: Rick isnt being an idiot and holding food in his hand and wanting the tegu to lick his lips. Hes just simply getting inside the cage. Its all about the food bud...
Just thought I should tell you this so you can shut up in the future, you can never justify your opinions. In other words, you can't win this one...
just ignore this lady, she is a crackpot. as long as she takes good care of her monitors i guess thats all that matters. no one takes her attempts at converting monitors into lap dogs seriously. she is going to end up with a badly bitten face one day, but that is her own problem.
Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 521 Location: Chicago, IL
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:30 pm Post subject:
wow (towards the whole post), i didn't even watch the video, but from what i read on the post... yeah, i'm speechless. One, we could ALL go about this disagreement in a whole different way. Calling eachother names and what not is just childish. This could have been gone about in a totally more mature way. Come on guys... Anyways, back to the topic on hand. I'm not going to call anyone stupid, I'm just going to post my opinion from my experiences, that is all. I used to hand feed my sav, and now that he is 4ft plus, whenever my hand comes near his cage, he assumes its food. I have been bitten and it does not feel good, i got 6 stitches. this was just a nip, but it took a good size chuck outta my finger (ring finger) I couldn't even imagine the pain from a full on bite. In the wild they eat land snails which are about 5-6in in diameter and the shells are as hard as rocks (literally) savannahs bite right through the shells and get at the snails, without a problem. So IMO I wouldn't suggest feeding by hand, it's like playing with fire, you are bound to get burned. IMO. Please everyone, lets try to keep this site a little more mature and civil. I'm not trying to make any enemies so please don't think i'm picking on anyone. Thanks. _________________ -Art-
Joined: Nov 30, 2006 Posts: 342 Location: Southern California
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject:
Well, I said you were feeding it cooked chicken because you never said it wasn't, even as many people criticized you on feeding cooked chicken. On YouTube, your comment (deleted for some reason) said something like, "Cooked chicken? Are you sure it wasn't pizza or tofu?" And lots of people seemed to recognize it as cooked chicken.
I say it "bites her" because it looks like it sure looks like it did....at 35-37, if it is not a bite, what is it? Sorry if it wasn't a bite...though it looked like one to me.
About the "picky, smelly, attack trained sav", it's not exactly attack-trained, but it does associate a pair of tongs with food, and it WILL bite it very hard lol.
About your comment on me bashing Rick's Tegu video.....I would never DREAM of bashing that. That was the cutest, most heartwarming thing ever, and it helped me decide in getting a Tegu.
If it isn't cooked chicken, please tell me what it is. I really want to know. I'm pretty sure it isn't whole food though, what monitors should be eating.
I just don't agree with what you are doing here, and a monitor that does not have a basking spot etc can't be healthy. Perhaps I am completely wrong, and you only take them out to play. Perhaps you have a cage with ideal temps, humidity, etc. You nailed me on one thing. I would not expect you to come here. I started this thread to see other people's opinions on this, to see how many agreed or disagreed on what you were doing. I went on your site and saw the log about how you were almost drowning a monitor and "being its savior". Partly because of this, I did not think you were taking very good care of these savs. But, hey, nobody is going to stop you, and I understand you have been attacked on other forums, so I will stop here. I had no intentions of this forum getting hectic like this.
PS. I think I will just wait for the videos....not send you a camera lol. _________________ Animals: Too many.
Well, I said you were feeding it cooked chicken because you never said it wasn't, even as many people criticized you on feeding cooked chicken.
second hand information is a lot like second hand food. not very good to have it in your mouth.
Of course i never told you it wasn't cooked chicken. i also did not tell you it wasn't bean curd, pizza or human remains. i never even heard of you before you posted this thread.
Quote:
About the "picky, smelly, attack trained sav", it's not exactly attack-trained, but it does associate a pair of tongs with food, and it WILL bite it very hard lol.
i apologise for the snideness of my remark. i see it wasn't beneath me do make it but i can't promise to mend my ways. i'll make an effort. If reasonableness should ever one day become the standard for discussions on this topic, i'll be the first in line for that. All i ever wanted was that, but i was shocked, angry and ready to fight when confronted with the huge negative reaction and the logical fallacies, lies, rumor mongering and gang-bashing. I still am.
Quote:
If it isn't cooked chicken, please tell me what it is. I really want to know. I'm pretty sure it isn't whole food though, what monitors should be eating.
As there is precious little objective data to establish 'the ideal diet' or 'the ideal conditions', there are a number of varied and conflicting ideas on the topic. IMO, the objective criteria by which to judge are growth rates, longevity and reproductive success.
If you have no quibble that the savs appear healthy, confident, active and vigorous, then the proof will only be available some time in the future. If they breed and live long, then we will know something about whether i am feeding them well or not.
Here is the plot of their growth curves since i had them. Day zero is the day i got them- they were already some months old then.
Objective data is needed. Anecdotes are not sufficient to make sound judgements. Please post the growth curves of your animal so we can compare. If yours are growing better, then i'd like your advice. If mine are growing better, then perhaps i'd like to know what you are doing so i can avoid it. First hand information only, please, not hearsay or anecdote.
The food you see in the videos is cricket omelette. It consists of one egg, 35g crix and 2 tablespoons oatmeal. i know this will be grist for the mill of my critics; so be it.
Quote:
Perhaps you have a cage with ideal temps, humidity, etc. You nailed me on one thing.
I do not have them in a cage at all. They are being treated as pets and they are responding accordingly, as is shown in the vids. There is no data to show that they need a specific humidity to thrive, while there are conflicting views on whether they need special levels at all, so long as they have a handy bath.
Here are some temperature data on my savs. You can see the temps that they keep themselves at. I go by that. If they demonstrate a tendency to maintain a certain range of temps, that's what i'll take as suitable unless there is some objective data to suggest they don't know wtf they want. Feel free to post your own data- we will all learn something important if you do.Did you notice that they generate some heat of their own?
Quote:
I went on your site and saw the log about how you were almost drowning a monitor and "being its savior". Partly because of this, I did not think you were taking very good care of these savs.
Did you really go to my site, as you claim? You may find my site here and be the very first of my critics to actually get the information i put there first hand:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=opera&rls=en&hs=yET&q=training+bosc+monitor&btnG=Search
Yes, i put the google url to show just how easy it is for anybody who wants the first hand information to find it. How is it that such passionate objections are justified by hearsay? Yes, i put an angry monitor in a bathtub of water and yes, the water was over his head. That was Buzzy. He is the star of the first 3 vids. If it damaged him in any way to be put in the bath, he's not giving any sign of it. I just know better than to be the focus of an angry monitor. Why he was angry i do not know. Why he likes me i do know. The growth data show that he had a sudden surge in growth after that bath, whereas he was not growing before that.
The pizza rumour, drowning, animal abuse stuff thrown at me is symptomatic of a hysterical agenda i may not completely understand but i do have some thoughts on the matter which can be found when you go to my site. Rumours are propagated by people like you who do not get the first hand information. They grow in proportion to the ignorance of the participating mob. You have made your contribution. That's not decent.
A better way would have been for you to find my site, read what i wrote and then, if you have some condemnation- at least it wouldn't be completely baseless, whether it's right or wrong.
So post your data! Hard data is vital to making any judgments and there just isn't enough of it. Until there is, the topic is open to question- and asking those questions is called science. Judgements on the basis of hearsay or anecdote is called bias.
Your decision, now, to wait for the vids is very wise. Just as i will wait for reproductive success to half-settle the matter. But there is only one way to find out anything and that is to experiment. Reality will be the final arbiter on any dispute. We only know that at least one of us is wrong.
Raging against the experiment can only prevent anybody from ever knowing. (see the wonderful quote from rehabralphy who doesn't quite get that it cuts 2 ways)
Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 403 Location: Missouri
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:46 pm Post subject:
You just typed all that for no reason.
I still wont justify it...
Its all extraneous examples. I can pull one too. How about I go feed my 20 foot Burmese python a rat thats hanging from my mouth. But he'll learn to know that its ok. I'll put a graph up stating why I can do this.
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Did you notice that they generate some heat of their own?
