theTegu.com - Tegu information, photo gallery, forums, caresheets, diet & nutritional info, taming tips and more for the argentine black and white tegu, argentine red tegu, blue tegu, colombian black tegu and the colombian gold-phased black tegu. Tupinambis merianea, teguixin & rufescens.
Joined: Oct 16, 2007 Posts: 1947 Location: San Antonio,TX
Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:34 pm Post subject:
I don't know any thing about breeding but I think as long as it is the same type of Tegu it doesn't matter what color you mix.Always remember this.NO question is a stupid question.The only stupid thing about a question is NOT ASKING the question .That's how we learn.
Breeders want to make money. by mixing they might get a different type of lizard. but from a scientific point of view it would be totally wrong since when you mix different subpecies eventually the original subspieces get lost in captivity and you end up with only hybrid animals.
If that is the case why can we still buy normal ball pythons and bearded dragons which are hybrid crazed? Thats absurd. There will always be normals for people who can't afford and don't care if they have a special breed. And if you have looked at a punnet sqaure then you know you will end up with a good deal of normal breed regardless. It would take forever to breed out an entire genetic color and it would have to be done intentionally...not to mention wild caughts
well, when the genes are mixed it is hard to tell which animal is pure and which isnt. And since the captive population has a small gene pool once the
genes are mixed it doesnt take long before the whole gene pool is affected.
Ball pythons are not a good example since i dont know of any subspecies.
But when you look at ratsnakes, certain types of ratsnakes such as obsoleta rossalini are hard to find cause they are interbred with quadrivittata.
i dont mean any melanistic or albino or any of those types.
Thats a different subject.
The red tegu isnt just a colour variation, it is a different subtype of tegu just as the golden one.
Joined: Nov 06, 2004 Posts: 972270 Location: Central Maine
Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:04 pm Post subject:
Yes, it is possible to cross the Argentine Black & White (T.merianae) with the Argentine Red Tegu (T.rufescens) and get a "B/W X Red".
Breeding crosses/hybrids in any animal, even reptiles, has been a long debated moral issue. Some feel it's fine, some feel it's horrible to do, but in the end, no one can tell you if it's morally wrong or not, it's a matter of opinion.
I have followed the debate with other reptile species, such as Burmese X Ball Pythons, Carpet Pythons X Ball Pythons, Cornsnakes X Kingsnakes, etc. over the years. The animals that are produced, can often breed and reproduce, are generally healthy, and sometimes they are pretty striking animals, but the downside is that, as stated above, once people started breeding crosses/hybrids, you had issues of with people selling hybrids for something they are not... for example.. a species of ratsnake X cornsnake, being sold as a "Bubblegum Cornsnake".
So the debate boils down to:
The "Against Hybrid People" say it's bad because.. You can't keep records of hybridization, thus you loose "Pure Species".
The "For Hybrid People" say it's good because.. You get a healthy and interesting animal. If you want to be sure of genetic pureness, you need to pay for a quality animal from a trusted breeder.
In the end, it's your individual choice. Both sides offer compelling reasons for their opinions, which is what it boils down too.. opinions.. but in the end every compelling reason and can countered with a reason for the other side.
In a perfect word, hybrids could all be chipped with a wireless id with their genetic details. Perhaps once id chips are cheaper, this will be more common practice. This would remove any and all "moral" issue from hybridizing.
well, to me its not a moral issue. in a way it is but what it comes down to is that reptiles in general are not like domesticated cats or dogs.
theyre basically wild animals that should be treated as such.
mixing two types of subspecies or even species ignores that fact.
what bothers me is that the reptile trade hasnt got much rules and most animals sold in shops end up dead after a while.
i think reponsability towards these animals should be uor first goal.
so keeping a gene pool unaffected is one of these responsable actions.
other resonsable actions should be that there should rules about selling and
how to keep these animals. what bothers me is that theyre seen as pets without regarding their basic needs and seeing them as the beautifull species they are that evolved over hundreds of thousands of years.
Joined: Oct 12, 2007 Posts: 410 Location: San Diego, CA
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject:
I'm only going to weigh in as follows:
1) I'm not supportive of mixbreeding withing animal species for commercial purposes. If it's all about making more money or then no thank you sir.
2) Again Snake, I take issue with your constant need to avoid the "pet" classification of reptiles. At one point dogs and even cats were wild and if released they often return to such a state, for example pack of wild dogs used to be a problem in Tilden Park in Berkeley. Birds if released often create their own flocks, for example the Parrots of Ocean Beach. But once you stat breeding them in CAPTIVITY and radically changing their environment (I don't care how "natural" your enclosure is, it's still a cage)you change their behavior and probably instincts to some degree as well.
3) Every year hundreds if not thousands of dogs and cats end up in shelters, pounds, rescues and destroyed because of irresonlsible husbandry. The reality is we are often poor care takers, hell look at all the problems people have raising their own kids.
So, I don't think there is a lot of milage in constantly telling people on this site who treat their Tegus as pets, just as they treat a dog or a cat, that they are wrong to do so.
If there are specific issues regarding husbandry that can be cited to and discussed, well that's another issue. I think we all learn from the different methods used to raise Tegus, dogs, birds and even children.
1) I'm not supportive of mixbreeding withing animal species for commercial purposes. If it's all about making more money or then no thank you sir.
2) Again Snake, I take issue with your constant need to avoid the "pet" classification of reptiles. At one point dogs and even cats were wild and if released they often return to such a state, for example pack of wild dogs used to be a problem in Tilden Park in Berkeley. Birds if released often create their own flocks, for example the Parrots of Ocean Beach. But once you stat breeding them in CAPTIVITY and radically changing their environment (I don't care how "natural" your enclosure is, it's still a cage)you change their behavior and probably instincts to some degree as well.
3) Every year hundreds if not thousands of dogs and cats end up in shelters, pounds, rescues and destroyed because of irresonlsible husbandry. The reality is we are often poor care takers, hell look at all the problems people have raising their own kids.
So, I don't think there is a lot of milage in constantly telling people on this site who treat their Tegus as pets, just as they treat a dog or a cat, that they are wrong to do so.
If there are specific issues regarding husbandry that can be cited to and discussed, well that's another issue. I think we all learn from the different methods used to raise Tegus, dogs, birds and even children.
well, its oke that you take issue but i have my own opinions.
cats and dogs have been domesticated for a long time.
they are truly domesticated animals.
reptiles however can suffer from stress if not treated properly.
i have seen enough in that field.
but to stay to the subject, what i was trying to say is that different subspecies of reptiles are not the same as different breeds of domesticated animals. they have evolved in the wild and are not different breeds.
Last edited by snakehandler on Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total
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.That's how we learn.
if it wouldn't be save why do breeders mix them ? I hope to get a respond on this one from Rick, too.It's not like you mix a arg. with a columbian.
