Is scientific inquiry dead?

Lucille · Member Joined: Dec 27, 2007 Posts: 63

I didn't know where to put this, but I am writing here as I feel strongly about the matter.
A little while back I started a topic on UV on another forum, interested in whether the vitamins made in a lizard's body after exposure to UV were any different than vitamins one gets from the pet shop.

I specifically said that this was not a practice issue, and that I in fact do keep my lizards happy and healthy and have no problem using UV; that this was a scientific inquiry only.

Bobby Varnyard ended up telling me that I should with hold UV from my own pet lizards and when they died, I would have my proof. I reiterated that it was a scientific discussion only, and he said I was 'nipping at his heels'.

I brought the conversation up again and he asked me how I would feel if someone paid attention to my questions and their lizard subsequently died. He then by private message sent me a long dissertation of his disagreement with Rick that I did not request and have no interest in; I do not want to take sides in tegu politics, I want to be able to talk about my tegu, get info, and pursue scientific inquiry that may go beyond care sheet information.

To me, this reaction from him, that I not delve into science, is a mandate from him that no scientific inquiry is allowed because he already solved the problem with an experiment (2 lizards, one time) and so from his posts all further inquiry is a challenge to his authority.

That he loves his lizards I have no doubt. That he has a great deal of experience, I have no doubt.

But this is America; and even if some of you members hail from overseas, the scientific community should not put shackles on thought.

I want to be able to discuss, to understand, to question, as far as my questioning will take me. That a member of the reptile community sees fit to quash that quest for information is not conducive to further breakthroughs that may one day lead to further understanding and perhaps better care for our reptiles.

Thank you for allowing me to express my opinion.

txrepgirl · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject:

Well, I think that your opinion is well put

.I found some websites that I thought you might be interested in reading.Hope you like them.Take care.

animalhospital-usa.com

www.phelsumania.com/public/captive%20care/lighting.html

www.anapsid.org/liteheat.html

Lucille · Member Joined: Dec 27, 2007 Posts: 63

Thank you for the info, I appreciate the time you took to get it for me.

txrepgirl · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:28 pm Post subject:

Your welcome ( any time )

.That's what we are here for

.I'm glad I could help.

EricIvins · Member Joined: Dec 08, 2007 Posts: 38

Unfortunately when egos run deep, diplomacy is always considered a threat. I don't know what it is about this trade, but it tends to attract those type people. Me personally, I think something's wrong when everybody agrees on one subject. If the issue was delved in using the Scientific method and proper husbandry, I think one could come to a surprising conclusion; Well, not surprising to some. Here lies the problem; What is proper husbandry? I will say this, I use no UVA/UVB/UV whatever. According to some, I should be burying Lizards day in and day out. I'm not, my husbandry works for me and my situation. I do believe that most people treat these bulbs as a band-aid for a bigger problem. Its all about proper diet and how these animals metabolize what they take in, in my opinion. Take it for what it is, but don't be put off by the people in this trade that tend to pee on the little people.

Cowher · Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:48 pm Post subject:

what site did this take place on? so we can all take a look. Also what was your user name?
I am interested in this because I have posed many questions to Bobby Hill aka Varnyard and never got a reaction like this. This is not the Bobby hill I know.. Bobby is never anything but a helpful and nice person but if you phrased you question is a way that he could have taken it wrong I can see Bobby getting very Passionate about proving you wrong As would I, as would Rick (the owner of this site) and many others.
and its because people like me, bobby, and rick, and also all the other owners out there love all tegus and dont like it when we see one in danger. so As far as calling bobby out you need to be careful and as for calling rick and bobbys issue out you need to be careful of that as well, I'm sure Rick doesn't want that dead cat dragged back up. What im trying to say is I think it was a case of misunderstanding and you should be less critical of people who have a passionate response.[/b]
_________________
Arg. B+W Tegu 1.0.0

You lock the door and throw away the key. There's someone in my head but its not me.

Cowher · Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:32 pm Post subject:

Also I don't think its fair to call Bobby out on a site where he is banned and cannot defend himself. Why don't you bring it over to fauna classifieds where he can respond to you and get this straightened out?
_________________
Arg. B+W Tegu 1.0.0

You lock the door and throw away the key. There's someone in my head but its not me.

wilomn · New Member Joined: Oct 31, 2007 Posts: 9

lucille has a habit of posting partial quotes and taking things out of context to prove whatever point she is on the side of.

She has done this again.

Here's a link to the thread in question.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105270

It's funny that she says she didn't know where to put this, yet she comes to a site she knows Bobby Hill is unable to respond on.

Why not continue it on Fauna where it was started? Could it be that she has people who know her lying ways too well there for her to get away with this latest ploy for pity?

This is a woman who once bragged to me that she could get 99% of the men she knew to do anything she wanted and 90% of the women.

She is NOT as nice a person as she comes off being. It's a well rehearsed act.
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When I have finished trampling the flowers, the hooves of my horse are more fragrant. Li Kao

wilomn · New Member Joined: Oct 31, 2007 Posts: 9

Lucille · Member Joined: Dec 27, 2007 Posts: 63

Wes, you have been banned for your nasty behavior multiple times on multiple sites. And Bobby was banned here for the same sort of behaviors he showed on that thread on Fauna.
This thread was specifically written to talk about people who are like the two of you. Posting on Fauna is useless because instead of responding to my inquiries, Bobby simply told me to withhold care from my pet and I would have my answer when it died.
If you read the thread, he even made nasty comments to a veterinarian who was trying to give some scientific responses. I am personally not going to wade through the kind of crap that you and Bobby hand out when I want a scientific discussion about lizard health.
I am sure Bobby is passionate about tegus and that is not in issue. What IS in issue is the kind of nasty responses that got him banned here, and it is those same kind of responses he used in talking to me on that thread, and I am not going to put up with that sort of crap.
There was no misunderstanding on Bobby's part; I specifically and repeatly said this was a scientific inquiry and that I do in fact give appropriate care to my lizards.
No. Enough is enough. I do not think crushing scientific inquiry is good for the hobby, and Wes, you have severe, severe control problems you need to take care of; you decided you needed to run over here and be nasty because Rich is getting tired of just this kind of nastiness over there.
This had nothing to do with you, and I certainly have not seen any honest posts from you dealing with scientific research and inquiry, you simply like to get down and get nasty.

greentriple · Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:42 am Post subject:

All this is so sad.

wilomn · New Member Joined: Oct 31, 2007 Posts: 9

Bobby gave you sound information from his own experience. Was that not scientific enough? Is it because he doesn't wear a labcoat when he works?

You don't want just scientific conversation, you want to make people feel sorry for the poor old lady who doesn't know as much as she should to properly take care of her animals.

I think you've been banned from a couple of sites too, haven't you? Does you not saying that make you better, worse, or the same as me?

You are a manipulative NEEDY woman. No place else will tolerate you so you come here. What's worse, you come here and badmouth Bobby KNOWING he can't say anything to defend himself.

As before, you're just not a nice person.
_________________
When I have finished trampling the flowers, the hooves of my horse are more fragrant. Li Kao

Lucille · Member Joined: Dec 27, 2007 Posts: 63

Nice try Wes.

The thread speaks for itself.

You are doing all you can to recharacterize what I said, to throw out red herrings by making personal attacks, anything except to face the issue that in that particular thread Bobby's hostile answers were uncalled for and inappropriate.

monkeywrench133 · New Member Joined: Sep 09, 2007 Posts: 2

With all due respect, I understand that there is some bad blood between Bobby and the Admin here, but to allow this thread to continue without allowing Bobby to respond strikes me as very unfair. You may not welcome him back with open arms, but at least let him state his case.

Cowher · Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:29 pm Post subject: