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It did no good to respond to Bobby in the thread, when I tried to further my inquiries, Bobby said something nasty including talking about setting it up so my tegu would die. He was also inappropriate to a veterinarian in the thread.
No. Scientific inquiry should be welcomed, not squelched.
It did no good to respond to Bobby in the thread, when I tried to further my inquiries, Bobby said something nasty including talking about setting it up so my tegu would die. He was also inappropriate to a veterinarian in the thread.
No. Scientific inquiry should be welcomed, not squelched.
Define scientific.
Do you have a theory?
Do you have a hypothesis?
Just because Dan is Vet that does not mean he should get treated any different than anyone else. Bobby has experience with THOUSANDS of tegus. Dan has experience with at best a few hundred and some schooling which may apply generally to lizards but not to tegus in particular.
Why don't you post EXACTLY what Bobby told you to do instead of harping on how he told you to let your lizards die. When the entire post is available it reads quite a bit differently.
But you don't know anything about playing that game. Do you? You would NEVER take something out of context just to prove your point or garner sympathy, would you?
Oh wait, that's what you do EVERY TIME you find yourself overstepping your knowledge, not a big step if I do say so, or trying to play the poor me card.
Get over it lucille. You've done this so many times on so many sites that you've gotten a reputation as a crybaby knownothing.
Scientific my ass. This was an attempt at character assASSination by you against Bobby Hill because he told you off and you got your widdo feewings hurted. _________________ When I have finished trampling the flowers, the hooves of my horse are more fragrant. Li Kao
Joined: Oct 10, 2007 Posts: 10 Location: Ocala, Fl
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Is scientific inquiry dead?
Lucille, if you look at your own post, less than 1/4 of it was about "science". Only the first 2 paragraphs out of 8 did not mention Mr. Hill. It seems to me that you feel bullied or wronged in some way by Mr. Hill and you needed to air it out here. Don't get me wrong I'm all about venting when frustrated, but I don't feel that you handled this properly. It's very obvious to me that your post was about Mr. Hill and not science.
Lucille wrote:
I didn't know where to put this, but I am writing here as I feel strongly about the matter.
A little while back I started a topic on UV on another forum, interested in whether the vitamins made in a lizard's body after exposure to UV were any different than vitamins one gets from the pet shop.
I specifically said that this was not a practice issue, and that I in fact do keep my lizards happy and healthy and have no problem using UV; that this was a scientific inquiry only.
Bobby Varnyard ended up telling me that I should with hold UV from my own pet lizards and when they died, I would have my proof. I reiterated that it was a scientific discussion only, and he said I was 'nipping at his heels'.
I brought the conversation up again and he asked me how I would feel if someone paid attention to my questions and their lizard subsequently died. He then by private message sent me a long dissertation of his disagreement with Rick that I did not request and have no interest in; I do not want to take sides in tegu politics, I want to be able to talk about my tegu, get info, and pursue scientific inquiry that may go beyond care sheet information.
To me, this reaction from him, that I not delve into science, is a mandate from him that no scientific inquiry is allowed because he already solved the problem with an experiment (2 lizards, one time) and so from his posts all further inquiry is a challenge to his authority.
That he loves his lizards I have no doubt. That he has a great deal of experience, I have no doubt.
But this is America; and even if some of you members hail from overseas, the scientific community should not put shackles on thought.
I want to be able to discuss, to understand, to question, as far as my questioning will take me. That a member of the reptile community sees fit to quash that quest for information is not conducive to further breakthroughs that may one day lead to further understanding and perhaps better care for our reptiles.
Thank you for allowing me to express my opinion.
Last edited by grandmagreen on Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:45 pm, edited 2 times in total
You feel strongly about science, that's a good one.
You feel safer here than on fauna. Why not talk about it there? There are THOUSANDS more who will see you there than here. What about on Bobby's site, why not there? Hmmmmm?
You have yet to answer my query.
Do you have a theory?
Do you have a hypothesis?
Do you have evidence that a guy who has raised THOUSANDS of baby tegus would NOT know how to do it better than someone who has raised a few?
Also, what have I lied about? Nothing that I am aware of.
YOU on the other hand have lied by omission and have attempted to make Bobby look bad by misquoting him and quoting him out of context.
You're not as smart as you think you are and WAY more people are hip to your tricks than you think.
You delude yourself lucille. You should stop that. _________________ When I have finished trampling the flowers, the hooves of my horse are more fragrant. Li Kao
Joined: Nov 04, 2007 Posts: 940 Location: Canada, Québec, Pointe-Calumet.
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject:
Wow guys...I saw that kind of post in every forum...
Please if you want to get your ''argus-personnal insults fight'' then send private message to each other...We don't need this kind of post in this forum. _________________ Ben
0.0.1 Bearded Dragon (Uresaii)
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mistery, but today is a gift...that is why we call it the present". -Tortoise Oogway
Joined: Oct 12, 2007 Posts: 519 Location: San Diego, CA
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject:
Amazing thread, simply amazing.
Clearly Bobby has a vast cadre of supporters who are willing to defend him from any criticism. And clearly there are those who are less than enchanted with him and his communication skills. In light of these two camps and the peripheral statements such as the one made in this thread will ignite strong sentiment whenever raised. It will be impossible to prove to Bobby and his forces that they are wrong, just as it seems impossible to prove to his detractors that they are wrong. To try and do either is a silly and endeavor, one would be better served attacking windmills. Each side states its position with such conviction the correctness of which is lost in the emotions. Accusations, insults and out of context quotes are the weapons used to sway outside observers to one side on the other. Alas, these tirades are entertaining, but exhausting. I pray some time soon feelings will simmer down and reason will prevail and the free flow of useful information will once again carry the day. However, I fear this will not come to pass so long as minions carry the fire of wrongs done others and discussion/debates are personalized. But then, this is a good warm up for watching presidential debates.
Joined: Oct 16, 2007 Posts: 2553 Location: San Antonio,TX
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject:
I don't want to be rude but I really would appreciate it if you all could keep the personal things to your self.If you want to keep things heated up like this fine but please to it by personal e-mailing each other.Wilomn this has nothing to do with the Tegus what lucille does in her personal live with the man and women.It has been a while a go now when Rick and Bob had there disagreements and Rick put it to rest so please leave it at rest.Don't dig up the past especially not on a forum.We are here to help each other out about the Tegus and make new members feel welcome and not have them see people fight on here.Thank you for your cooperation.
Joined: Nov 06, 2004 Posts: 972269 Location: Central Maine
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject:
I am locking this thread. I am doing so merely because of all of the personal comments being made. Discussions or threads that do not include personal comments that are rude, hurtful or disrespectful are more than welcome. If anyone feels that I am doing so unfairly, feel free to contact me and we will discuss it.
Let's leave out all the personal comments. We are all here to learn and share knowledge and the majority of the users have made it clear that this kind of nonsense just detracts from the true purpose of this website.
Though I did recently have a falling out with Bobby, I do agree that he should be given at least enough respect not to call him out on a website that you know he can not be called out on. You are welcome to start a new thread discussing the scientific requirement of UVB.
To those who attacked the character of the original poster, there was no need for that either. It only instigates the drama. Next time, feel free to contact me directly and I will resolve any issues that I feel need to be resolved.
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