Hybrids

Anubis · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:18 am Post subject: Hybrids

I've noticed that there's a lot of interest in tegu hybrids in this part of the hobby. Usually hybrids are looked down at as muddying up the gene pool of the pure species with most other reptiles. I personally think a lot are nice and should be bred responsibly, but there's always the problem of continued breeding of a hybrid to something else. Down the line, do any of you think the availability of hybrids could alter the several wild type species we have in the hobby through something like unrestrained breeding that's partly based on ignorance of the buyer?

I'm just thinking that a lot of people get a tegu hybrid just for a pet and don't bother keeping records, them sometime down the line could end up breeding it out of impulse, with little regard to the long-term effects.

Another issue could be shallow gene pools within the typical species. I'm not sure how prevalent that is, but it's been happening with other reptiles who've had their importation curbed or are the focus of intensive breeding for morphs. Inbreeding could end up weakening the animals or causing defects to pop up more often (e.g. leucistic bug-eyed ratsnakes or the scaleless ball python). It might not be the case with Colombian Tegus, since those aren't being bred much in captivity, but Argentines could eventually be subject to it (though I'm not sure on their import status).

meanah · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:47 am Post subject:

there are scaleless snakes? that has gone too far... that is one Messed up snake i bet its freaked out hahaha.. colombians dont get that much breeding.. i think it sucks... cause id liek to see more out there but ppl dont like them for some reason.. w.e. i love them but id still like to get a arg.

angelrose · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:58 pm Post subject:

I think it's wrong to mess with that ....that's just me

. however, I would like to see more breeding on the columbian tegus. I am looking into it and would like to get started

.
( I like them a lil' on the wild side

).
_________________
1.2.0 b/w Colombian tegus
1.2.0 b/w Argentine tegus
1.0.0 Savanah monitor
1.0.0 Brazillian Rainbow boa
1.1.0 Ball pythons
1.0.0 Burmese python

meanah · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:06 pm Post subject:

yeah i want to too.. im hopeing that i can get another male.. so i can breed mine as well.. i like the looks of colombians but id still like to get an arg...

angelrose · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:33 pm Post subject:

I am reading up on breeding and I am looking for a male columbian also

. I would have to see an arg. in person I think ... see if it catches my eye

_________________
1.2.0 b/w Colombian tegus
1.2.0 b/w Argentine tegus
1.0.0 Savanah monitor
1.0.0 Brazillian Rainbow boa
1.1.0 Ball pythons
1.0.0 Burmese python

Anubis · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject:

meanah · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:53 pm Post subject:

that is soo gross that people would take advatage of a deformity. (sp) and just the fact that it is scales.. gross but w.e.

txrepgirl · Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:54 am Post subject:

I keep wondering how they can have no scales.What did they do that they come out this way

.Guess some people have to much time on there hand and get bored to do some messed up stuff like this

.

Anubis · Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:49 am Post subject:

The ball python in the pictures was just an unintentional mutation. No one at the time was looking to breed them. Scaleless snakes do happen naturally on extremely rare occasions, but possibly the frequency of that mutation is higher in inbred, captive populations.

Several others were produced. I'm not sure if those were intentional or not, but it was an oddly higher number than I previously thought were around.

txrepgirl · Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:40 am Post subject:

Thank you for the info.

ApriliaRufo · Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject:

Hey guys. I'm not trying to start any arguments, but there are a very few snakes that have been made scaleless like the "Smoothie Texas Rat Snake " that BHB successfully bred, but I'm a certified photoshop professional and those photos of that ball python are HORRIFICALLY photoshopped. Those are really bad filters and careless hand painting. If there's a scaleless ball out there, (I don't claim that there is not) but it is definitely not that one.

Anubis · Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:17 am Post subject:

Horrifically? I wouldn't say it's too bad if it fooled that many people. That aside, there were some in existence.

What do you think of this (Burm, though I can't really tell)? Photoshopped? http://forums.bobclark.com/showpost.php?p=505707&postcount=32

ApriliaRufo · Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject:

Yes they would look somewhat real if someone has not had much photoshop experience but those are just plain bad photoshop fakes. Maybe if I take a picture of one of my ball pythons, I will make it scaleless. It is very fake. The edges of the ball python have been selected by an elliptical selection tool. It was not even hand-painted (or mouse painted, depending on if you have a pad or not). It's a sick idea to have a scaleless ball python, but the pictures are BS.

Look closely at the belly. Near the guy's finger is a mistake. First of all, the belly wouldn't be perfectly straight like it is. You see there's a specific way to take a photo that you intend to photoshop. He took the photo trying to make the snake look as straight as possible to compensate for the time consumption it would take to make the photo look perfectly imperfect. That's the best part about nature, nothing is perfect. Second of all if you zoom in you can see that the snakes patterns on the belly do not perfectly match on each side. As the snake grows, it's patterns stretch and new scales are incorporated evenly on the snake, it doesn't keep growing new pieces of pattern from the belly out. So the V shape he tried to make look like it matches, isn't correct at all. The pattern is an endless circle. It wouldn't stop in the middle. Ok next problem, if it was truly scaleless, the snake would look Matte, even the few scales and bumps (if it was a genetic predisposition, there would be none, albinos don't have random patches of black on them and seemingly normals couldn't have a small patch of albino. It's not like reptiles can get vitiligo, and even if they did, it comes and goes with the day, scales don't form over night like the possibility of color pigment) would not be slick looking, they were made to look wet, because the easiest way to add scales is to filter small shapes and liquidize them. Look at BHB's smoothie and you will see that the entire animal is matte, not glossy, and it has NO scales, not some random patches here and there.

I promise I'm not trying to be a smartass, I just think whoever did this photoshop work, should have their license key revoked. If you're gonna fake something, for Christ's sake, do some research before you give it a shot. LoL.

Oh and BTW, yes scaleless snakes are possible, have been done, and I disagree with their existence, it shouldn't happen. The Burm picture in that link doesn't work it just showed my the ball pictures again, with a few new ones that were worse than the first. I really hope no one is trying to sell that, because they'll either receive no snake at all, or get a normal that they paid through the teeth for.

Dragonfyre · Member Joined: Sep 16, 2007 Posts: 16 Location: Florida

I was wondering if it were at all possible to breed a columbian and an arg B&W together? I think that would be interesting. I currently have a columbian and an arg. b&w about the same age as each other and they are housed together. The funny thing is that my arg. B&W has the personality of the columbian and the columbian has the Argentine's personality.

So I was just curious if they would ever mix with each other. I think that would be an interesting combo. though I am not going to try to mix them.