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Joined: Jul 09, 2005 Posts: 88 Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:01 am Post subject: Tegu twitching??
I went to feed my tegu this morning and I noticed she was twitching her legs and toes really badly. I have seen this before with my other tegu and it eventually stops but I just want to know what that would be from. I am guessing it is stress but I dont know what they would be stressed from. I havent dont anything different with feeding or changing the cage. If anyone has had this problem or knows what this is from and how I can prevent it from happening let me know. Thanks
P.S. My tegu is also in shed, if that would have anything to do with it.
Katie _________________ 1.1 Veiled Chameleons
1.1 Argentine Black & White Tegu
0.0.1 Argentine Red Tegu
2.3 Red Tail Boas
4.6 Corn Snakes
1.0 California King Snake
1.0 Mexican Variable King Snake
0.1 Northern Pine Snake
1.8 Ball Python
0.0.1 Green Tree Python
Joined: Jan 05, 2005 Posts: 190 Location: Traverse City, MI
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:25 am Post subject:
Does your tegu have UVB lighting and recieve supplements? Twitching could be caused by a calcium deficiency. _________________ Tara
Reptiholic's Anonymous
My guess would be the same as herp_havens - usually twitching of the legs and digits is a sign of calcium deficiency. I would take her to a vet, who will give her a calcium shot if necessary.
To help in an estimate (not to replace the advice of a qualified vet!), tell us about your tegus diet - what are you feeding? Fuzzy mice? Insects? Also, are you using a UVB source and/or supplementation? This may shed further light.
Joined: Jul 09, 2005 Posts: 88 Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:17 pm Post subject:
Her diet consists of crickets and meal worms dusted every other day with calcium and once a week dusted with vitamins, and she has a 10.0 UVB light inside her cage. She also gets a couple pinkies and fuzzies a week. _________________ 1.1 Veiled Chameleons
1.1 Argentine Black & White Tegu
0.0.1 Argentine Red Tegu
2.3 Red Tail Boas
4.6 Corn Snakes
1.0 California King Snake
1.0 Mexican Variable King Snake
0.1 Northern Pine Snake
1.8 Ball Python
0.0.1 Green Tree Python
Hmm...doesnt sound like theres a problem there to me. How old is the UV and how far from the basking spot is it?
Also, just on a side note, what make is the bulb? The highest I have ever seen for sale here in the UK is a Reptisun.ReptiGlo 8.0. I didnt even know they made 10s!
Joined: Jul 09, 2005 Posts: 88 Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:25 pm Post subject:
The UVB light is about 15 inches away from the ground, but I have a hidebox right underneath the light and she usually lays on top of it for a while to get some UVB. I have a repti sun 10.0 and it is about 2 months old. _________________ 1.1 Veiled Chameleons
1.1 Argentine Black & White Tegu
0.0.1 Argentine Red Tegu
2.3 Red Tail Boas
4.6 Corn Snakes
1.0 California King Snake
1.0 Mexican Variable King Snake
0.1 Northern Pine Snake
1.8 Ball Python
0.0.1 Green Tree Python
Your tegu has muscle tremors, and these are typically caused by IMPROPER calcium metabolism. Unfortunately, most people think it is a sign of metabolic bone disease, but that's not true. Tremors can be a symptom of too little calcium, but also sometimes is caused by too much in certain areas. Essentially, as I said, it's unbalanced calcium metabolism. You may be giving enough calcium, but if it is out of proper ratio with phosphorus, your tegu will not be absorbing enough. If it doesn't have enough UVB of 295nm wavelength, then it isn't producing enough pro-vitD3 to properly metabolize the calcium. Also, as pro-vitD3 is converted to vitD3 in the kidneys, it may not be a sign of improper calcium metabolism, it may be a sign of deranged kidney function.
First, you should be checking to ensure that your tegus ENTIRE diet is properly minerally balanced. Too many times people only make sure their supplements are balanced, and forget that a lot of the foods they are feeding are high in phosphorus, low in calcium. Feeding balanced supplements with unbalanced staple is still an unbalanced diet. There might also be something in the diet that is blocking proper calcium absorption such as oxalic acids. Stay away from veggies such as chard, spinach, beet tops and cabbages.
Second, your UVB bulb may be shot. Everyone seems to swear by the Reptisun bulbs, but considering that the Reptisun 5 doesn't produce as much 295nm wavelength EM as a usual plantgro bulb does, I have little faith in saying their Reptisun 10 is any better. You may need to add not just a new bulb, but more. Furthermore, anything like glass or plastic between the bulb and the animal will filter out all that useful UV.
Third, you should take it to the vet for a thorough examination. As I said, muscle tremors can be a sign of more than just improper calcium metabolism. Aside from kidney problems, your tegu might have a genetic disease contributing to this symptom, it may have a neurological disorder, etc. Make sure you use a GOOD, reputable herpetologically trained vet.
Joined: Nov 06, 2004 Posts: 972270 Location: Central Maine
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:32 pm Post subject:
To K8t:
These are the hatchlings that came from me, right?
They are both from completely separate bloodlines and were from tegus raised outside. They were laid and hatched outdoors so had a good jumpstart.
What concerns me is the fact that you are feeding supplements and giving UVB light, yet both hatchlings from separate bloodlines, are showing signs of trembling. "I have seen this before with my other tegu and it eventually stops". None of the other hatchlings from the 4 bloodlines that were sold are having this issue, so I'd almost guarantee it's likely enviromental.
The reasoning is that two bloodlines would be highly improbable to have the same genetic issues or neurological disorder. I'd bet that's it's more likely to be a problem with calcium metabolism.
I would make a list of your tegus diet, as well as the brand names and types of supplements you are using, and post that info. Is your calcium supplement phosphate free? Perhaps as tupinambis stated the UVB bulb is not functioning correctly. Call around and see if you can find a vet who claims to work with tegus, then ask him for a few references of clients who have tegus. You may be able to post a question in here to those who live in your area as to what vet they use for their tegus.
To tupinambis:
Isn't improper calcium metabolism what leads to MBD? My understanding is that because of improper calcium metabolism the body takes what it needs from the bones, thus causing MBD. Is this correct?
Joined: Jul 09, 2005 Posts: 88 Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:52 pm Post subject:
When I saw my Tegu trembling it was for only that one morning and it lasted maybe 5 minutes and then stopped. Besides that I havent seen it tremble and when I got my first Tegu it trembled the first 10 minutes I had it. I sprayed it down and it stopped immediatley. Other than those 2 times with both my Tegus I havent ever seen them tremble. That is why I thought it was from some sort of stress.
I will look further into calcium issues and call around and research. I appreciate everyones comments, thanks.
Katie _________________ 1.1 Veiled Chameleons
1.1 Argentine Black & White Tegu
0.0.1 Argentine Red Tegu
2.3 Red Tail Boas
4.6 Corn Snakes
1.0 California King Snake
1.0 Mexican Variable King Snake
0.1 Northern Pine Snake
1.8 Ball Python
0.0.1 Green Tree Python
Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 1164 Location: panamacity florida
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:54 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Isn't improper calcium metabolism what leads to MBD? My understanding is that because of improper calcium metabolism the body takes what it needs from the bones, thus causing MBD. Is this correct?
That is right Rick, and sometimes you will find that some reptiles do not absorb enough calcium even with the right vitamins and proper diet, their bodys throws it off as waste. It is rare, but does happen. It is more common in iguanas. As for tegus, I don't know if there are any problem with them with this. Also I have five of the same stock as these and have had no problems with trembling at all. I do think it is as you say, a enviromental problem and maybe the answer to this trembling.
Joined: Nov 06, 2004 Posts: 972270 Location: Central Maine
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:45 pm Post subject:
K8t wrote:
When I saw my Tegu trembling it was for only that one morning and it lasted maybe 5 minutes and then stopped. Besides that I havent seen it tremble and when I got my first Tegu it trembled the first 10 minutes I had it. I sprayed it down and it stopped immediatley. Other than those 2 times with both my Tegus I havent ever seen them tremble. That is why I thought it was from some sort of stress.
If in the last two months you have seen one tegu tremble for 5 minutes and one for 10 minutes and they both stopped I wouldn't worry about it to strongly unless you see it happen again. Where was they when it happened? Sometimes when under a strong basking light a tegu will lift his foot to allow it to cool, perhaps this is what you are seeing?
Joined: Jul 09, 2005 Posts: 88 Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:05 pm Post subject:
Yeah she was under the basking spot, she eats a ton and is doing fine now. I will keep a close eye on her and make sure it doesnt happen again. Thanks!
Improper calcium metabolism isn't the sole etiology involved in MBD. In fact, you'll find MBD is a rather HUGE catch-bucket used to describe an immense amount of disorders that inevitably lead to deformation of bone. In captive reptiles, yes, the typical MBD seen manifests from lack of calcium in the diet, or improper calcium metabolism, but the improper calcium metabolism may NOT be the cause but instead the result of something else.
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