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If you want to continue to claim what your girlfriend claims as facts, then you will be proving yourself to be 100% dead wrong as she has done.
100% dead wrong, hmmn, let's check this out.
Your statement was:
Quote:
Most dog food have red dyes # 5 and # 40, these have been found to be toxic to reptiles.
This states not that red dyes #5 and #40 are toxic in general, but are specifically toxic to reptiles. I'm not questioning their toxicity, I'm questioning your claim to them having been tested and proven so in reptiles as you insist.
Her statement was:
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I have never ever found a reference to F&C Red 4 or 40 toxicity in a reptile in any sort of peer reviewed verterinary, toxicopathology or biochemical journal.
She has simply stated that contrary to your claim, it has never been tested in reptiles specifically. You evidently cannot support your claim to it having been found toxic to reptiles so it is Varnyard that is wrong in this case.
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As for the rats, they have always been used in labs as with this case. They do not use reptiles or humans, they use rats and mice. So please do not act so lost Colin..
As for whether these dyes are toxic or not, I've never made any claim to them not being, just that I agree with Alex that there are no studies showing such in reptiles as you specifically pointed out. However, I find your statement:
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These toxins are poisons, so that means a little is fine? I think not.
to show your lack of understanding of toxins. Do you know that oxygen is a toxin? That's right, in sufficient concentrations it will cause more damage to your system than your red-40 dye. I don't disagree that red-40 is toxic, so I'm neither right nor wrong here.
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As for McDonalds, at least it is regulated by USDA, too bad pet foods are not.
Hopefully you are not advocating people start feeding their tegus at McDonald's. USDA may regulate it, but McDonald's (and most other fast foods) have been shown to contain traces of acrylimide, a rather toxic substance.
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You also left off the part about the ones doing the test on the rats were more than qualified. They proved that Red dye # 40 is toxic and the FDA banned them for human use. Now that is the facts, you can own up to being wrong and admit it like a man, or you can run in circles like you are doing now.
I am wrong about what, do tell? I didn't say red-40 wasn't toxic, I didn't say red-40 wasn't banned for human use. I admit I made no claim to these points, only in your head did this occur. It's not me that's running in circles. YOU made the claim of it being in reptiles, and we said there aren't any such studies of this in reptiles. You're the one running in circles to cover your argument.
You really do seem to have a hard time keeping facts straight. Such as your statement:
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Go back and read my posts again, Alex is the one that said the ash was wood, not me.
What alex stated was:
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Ash is usually cited as the dry matter left after determination of water content, fat content and such via a variety of methods - basically, it's the mineral content of food. Quantity of ash is important to know in certain disease states, but it is not identical to wood ashes being put in dog food and a food that cites ash content is not saying there's ashes in the food.
She only referred to wood ash as a comparison to it's possibility of being an impaction if ingested. YOU made the erroneous leap of thinking she was claiming wood ash is in the food. She quite clearly makes that distinction with:
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Quantity of ash is important to know in certain disease states, but it is not identical to wood ashes being put in dog food and a food that cites ash content is not saying there's ashes in the food.
So again, Varnyard is wrong.
And to rehash, you also said:
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Now for ash and newspaper, both of these are used a fillers in dog/cat foods.
As for the red dyes being in dog food and cat food, all one need do is read the label.
and I had previously said (with respect to dyes in dog food):
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It probably is, but frankly, I wouldn't feed kibble dog foods to a dog anyhow (let alone a tegu).
Are you insisting I'm wrong about this? That would be an odd interpretation of you being right and me wrong when we state pretty much the same thing.
Your statement:
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However, burned animal matter is not needed in a tegus diet.
Didn't say burned animal matter was needed in tegu diet. You certainly do have problems with interpretation, don't you? What I stated was that the "ash" in pet foods is not something that is added to the food, they don't put ash into the kibble as an ingredient. Same as when an animal or any organic matter is cremated, you get ash left over. YOUR argument showed you didn't understand the concept of ash as it pertains to pet foods, I was trying to demonstrate that the ash in pet foods is the same as the ash left over from cremating an animal, and if your statement that it causes impaction were true, then feeding rodents to tegus would be a bad thing because they contain the same "ash".
Now, when I go through this tally, I don't see anything that indicates that
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will be proving yourself to be 100% dead wrong
, in fact, it seems to show you are often wrong outright and most particularly in your interpretations of what I have or haven't said. Strawman arguments are not validation of being correct, they're just fallacious in the first place.
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Now that is the facts, you can own up to being wrong and admit it like a man, or you can run in circles like you are doing now.
Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 1164 Location: panamacity florida
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:12 pm Post subject:
Colin, the good book says if a man wants to be ignorant, let him stay ignorant. Well that sums it up, does it not?
These dyes are proven toxic poisons, to claim they might not affect one animal, is outright stupid. Are you still in school? Do you learn while you are there?
Hey, why don't you do a study on strychnine poison or antifreeze on tegus, you could even get a gun and shoot them, tegus might be bullet proof. That is just about how silly you sound. _________________ www.tegu.com and www.Varnyard-herps-inc.com
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