general questions about housing, feeding, etc.

Pea-brain

hey. I plan to get a argentine B&W near the end of summer vacation. I have some questions that I would like answered.

1. I have a closet thing about 7'10" long, 2.5' wide, and about 6" deep (from floor to the lip which I plan to fill with substrate after putting a tarp at bottom) and 4'-5' tall from floor to ceiling (slanted ceiling). I plan to replace the cracked wooden doors with plexiglass and put some kind of spray/paint sealant on the walls (any reptile friendly suggestions?) I plan to get an automatic mister, A hygrometer and thermometer, UV lamp and heat lamp (any suggestions on brand and what type (spot, flood, florescent)?), food and water dishes, hide box, another box to put it in when feeding, a basking rock, a small personal freezer (for storing mice), supplies for breeding the following: crickets, nightcrawlers, and mice, the animals for breeding, some tongs, some work gloves (incase he gets mad), and a lizard harness. Do I need anything else?

2.would it be possible to keep a male arg. B&W with a female red in an area that small? I plan to let them out almost everyday (the longest I would be away is 2 days). Because i would like to breed them in the future (if I am right then the red is more closely related to the Arg. B&W than to the blue tegu (assuming that the blue is more closely related to the Columbian B&W like some say) and if BlueXRed combinations are possible then It's more than likely that B&WXRed would probably work)

3. I've read that it is possible to pull a tegu out of brumation by raising temps. If I were to pull them out after a month or two would they be fertile? or do I need the full 6 months?

4. What are some good training methods? I know about clicker training and heard about the t-shirt training (I don't know what exactly that is but i assume that it taking an old t-shirt covered in your stench and placing it in the enclosure so they can get used to the smell)

5. I was thinking about breeding Giant donnios (the link doesn't seem to be working. go under fish, freshwater fish, and look for danio, giant) as a treat. would that work or are they bad for him? (I would feed them healthy snacks and high protein fish food from birth)

6.would a temp gun be neccessary?

7. I plan to get a 1-year old from Bert at end of summer. How big should I expect it to be (I know he brumates them)

8. a)how fast can a full grown male run? b)how fast can they swim? c)If i were swimming in water above my head with it on a harness would i have to worry about it dragging me through the water if it gets spooked? d)can they see underwater? e)would It be okay to take it swimming at local lake? f)should I worry about it eating the fish? (mostly tiny bass and sunfish...stuff like that though i do see the occasional adult bass near the far out rock pile but i wouldn't take it that far out.

9. should i worry about the bed or carpet in my room?

10. should I worry about electrical cords?

If I think of anything else I'll post it and I'll post pics of my room when Rick gets around to adding my gallery (I sent a message earlier) thanks for the help
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Argentine B&W planned for end of summer

Englishtegu · Valued Member Joined: Jul 13, 2005 Posts: 111 Location: UK

Wow; thats a lot of questions. Here are some random answers...

8' x 3' is the accepted minimum for a single animal. Yours is smaller than that, so no, two tegus is not a good idea. Until recently I had two in a 10'6" x 3'6" cage and I wouldn't go any smaller; 12' x 4' would be much better.

I wouldn't count on letting it out all the time; they like to crap outside their cage (on the bed/carpet) and mine can not be left unsupervised for more than two minutes.

In terms of breeding feeder animals; I would get some large roaches, and maybe some king mealworms and/or locusts going. You can breed rodents if you choose to, but I'd leave the fish. The amount of effort here can not be worth it.

I swear by my temp gun; wouldn't be without it. Also, the swimming thing; I think you'll both drown lol. I don't think tegus are particularly strong swimmers; are you thinking of a water monitor?

Hope this is helpful
Mark.

Nero557 · Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:26 pm Post subject:

Okay, englishtegu answered the tank size questions...

You can train them to "free roam" but you would have to set up your house and what not so they didn't get under certain things, and make sure they can't get cut up or into anything poisonous or anything of the sort. Also, that would take a while, I'd assume (key word there) at least a couple years to totally train them... but I don't know... mine don't roam without me around.

for light bulbs, most guys use mercury vapor bulbs... for they produce heat and uvb/uva, but... watch the temp because they produce a lot of heat, so you need a decent size enclosure...

Hygrometer and thermometers... You don't need a specific reptile brand, you can just go to like radio shack and get a decent one that is digital with a probe that reads both the humidity/temps. Digital tends to be easier and they are pretty accurate... the probe helps placement... the themal guns are used by a wide portion of people, so that is another option for temps.

and with the breeding of the Black&white with a red, more power to you, and it is definitely worth a shot, but just so you know people have tried and have not succeeded with fertile eggs (but don't let that get you down, I'm just letting you know, who knows maybe you will get lucky)

training methods... clicker training will work (I don't do it but I've heard good things) umm... they tend to associate colors with certain things... such as if you feed white mice they will go after most things white.

breeding fish for a treat is going a little to far... if it's going to be just a treat, don't breed it, just go buy all natural fillets at the store. Fish are not as easy to keep as people think, plus like englishtegu said that is too much to go through, especially just for a treat, it would be cheaper to occasionally just buy fillets.

a one year old from bert... I'm not sure on how big this would be, but I will say about 20inches or so give or take a few inches... (someone please correct me if I'm off)

I wouldn't take a tegu swimming in a lake... they are not that skilled in the art of swimming

They probably will go to the bathroom once in a while on your bed or carpet... just watch for the tail lifting and what not, (you can see when they are about to go) but you can just clean your carpet and change your sheets... you might want to put a plastic liner down on you bed when they are out or something of the sort, extra towels or something. they can release quite a bit when they get bigger

electrical cords, that's easy, just wind them up and zip tie them or something similar, or just hide them all together if you build an enclosure (in the walls or something)

I hope that all helps, sorry for the length, I probably missed a few things...but I try, can't wait to see them (pics)

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-Art-

Pea-brain · Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:45 pm Post subject:

I've seen a video with a tegu swimming and it looked like a pretty powerful swimmer. The tegu wouldn't leave my room and I've heard of success stories with tegu's and house training. Rick still hasn't set up my gallery (he's supposed to pm me back right?) and I've decided I'm gonna get a male and name him Mr. T

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Argentine B&W planned for end of summer

Nero557 · Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject:

Yeah, you can do the house training, it will just take some work, that's all I'm saying, and the swimming thing, they can swim, but to be out in a lake and swim, that probably won't work out too well. You see, they can swim, but they are not "powerful" swimmers because they will not be able to swim for a long period of time, it would be somewhat relative to putting a 5 year old kid in the ocean and telling him to have at it... I mean he could probably swim for a little while, but he will get tired and pretty quick, so if he swam out, he wouldn't be able to make it back, also the water would probably be too cold and a tegu's body would slow down causing them to get tired and not be able to make it back to safety. Granted, you would be right there, but it still wouldn't be good on the health of your tegu. Another thing, if the tegu happened to eat a wild fish or animal, he might contract parasites and what not. I'm not saying you and your tegu CAN'T do it, I'm just saying I personally wouldn't highly recommend it... that's all. It is the same concept as feeding your animals wild rodents and bugs... they can and probably will eat them, but you are risking infecting your tegu, the insects probably ate something with pesticides or chemicals in/on it and the rodents as well, or they could have diseases/parasites that you would not want your tegu to contract. Plus if your tegu happened to contract something and then bit you, you might also get it... just a few things to think about...

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-Art-

Pea-brain · Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:08 am Post subject:

as for the roaches I cannot bred them because my mom has a severe fear they will get loose and infest the house, so no roaches. I also realized that wild fish might have parasites and stuff but my question was asking more whether or not I should worry about it diving under for the fish. I would also not let it go alone or out deep and if it showed signs of getting tired I would bring it back on land and let it bask in the sun. The question on whether or not it could drag me was more of wondering it power as a swimmer because it would not go above my head under any circumstance but I wanted to know whether i should worry about it pulling me and getting my foot cut on a rock to stop it. Also when I asked about the bed and rug I was actually wondering whether I should worry about it trying to dig through them or getting its claws hurt walking on them.

New questions! I know I should feed it every other day but how much should i feed it? a mouse? A mouse and a few large crickets? (I know it depends on the lizard but what would you recommend?)

should I name him the fonz or Mr. T?

would it be a good idea to build it's hidebox into the wall so its stationary or would he like the ability to move it around? also I know you shouldn't invade their hidebox but would it be ok if I blocked the entrance off when I'm trying to handle him? would that stress him out to much?

If he's only 20 inches would he still be a little green? he would still be relatively easy to train right?

Also I saw this product at drs foster and smith and I was wondering if it would harm a B&W? I thought it might be able to give the white a slight tint of color that might look cool. Do you think it could work? I don't want to try it if I don't know what it will do though......

Thanks for the help and still no gallery

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Argentine B&W planned for end of summer

Englishtegu · Valued Member Joined: Jul 13, 2005 Posts: 111 Location: UK

With the feeding, it depends on the size, but at 20" or so, I'd feed it pretty much daily, with lots of insects and mice and a few other bits and pieces (turkey, eggs, snails etc) for variety.

Cheers,
Mark.

Johelian · Retired Mod Joined: Nov 22, 2004 Posts: 848

Since a tegu shouldnt be swimming continuously for any length of time anyway, it will very rapidly tire and want a break, probably not long after you started. Dont take it into a large body of water. It will probably drown before it drags you anywhere, unless you weigh virtually nothing.

The tegus claws arent particularly strongly curved, so probably wont catch on material. Its not a guarantee though. Dont put them on the bed; while some people (for some reason) seem to like putting them on there, they are unpredicatable in their defaecation habits, and its just not a hygenic thing to do. They may also injure themselves falling off.

For a baby/juvenile feed daily all it will eat. Vary between mice (judge the size by the width of the mouse and the width of the tegus head - they will swallow anything that will fit down their throats. Ideally feed the largest mouse they can handle. They will rip up prey thats too big, so dont worry about choking them), crickets, locusts, roaches, morioworms, snails, fruits, veg etc. You should dust the food with a reptile supplement, particularly if youre not yet feeding adult mice.

Name it whatever you like - chances are it wont care in the slightest

If you build a hidebox into the wall, you wont be able to extract him should you need to in an emergency. Its fine to leave it loose in the cage, provided it cant dislodge and squash him if he digs under it.

Any handling you do will stress out the tegu to some extent while its new to you, so blocking the hide wont be any different. Just dont prolong the sessions; stress can lead to parasitic infestation that can have a devastating effect on your tegus health. Short, frequent sessions are better than one long terrifying one.

Im pretty sure they lose their green by the time they get to this size, but mine has never been green while Ive had him so I cant vouch for it.

That product appears ludicrous to me; will our greed never end?

Pea-brain · Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:21 pm Post subject:

I guess I overestimated swimming power, and I know that most tegus don't like to swim anyways. If mine does I know a shallow part of the lake that is all sand and has a very gradual slope...that is until you go a few yards out and it goes from 3' to 5'-6' in less than an inch.... I'm hoping to get it on a schedule so when i take it out it immediately goes outside for its business (in winter I might have to hold it over a newspaper) , then food time, then I play with it a little bit and let it explore for a few hours (with access to a heat lamp and water) then back in the cage. If I did let it on my bed I'd have a special sheet for when its out which would be removed when he goes back in and I would get (or make) one of those ramps for fat old dog and cats so it wouldn't have to jump to get down. anyways if my plan works it might minimize the chances of it crapping everywhere. I'm also going to try to teach it to scratch the door if it needs to go out (maybe I'll get lucky and grab a smart one?) And i think that it would care what t.v land legend it's named after

Also my question about feeding was about adults. I know that when its young you should shove the biggest food that will fit down it's throat until no more fits

If I were to put an electrical socket 3 or 4 feet high would i have to worry about it? i was going to put a hinge on the hide box so i could open it but it would be easier to clean if I got a loose one so im gonna get a loose.

Also, I got my gallery!

Any hints on how to make it more tegu friendly? I plan to replace the doors on the cubby/closet with lexan and get rid of the middle bar so it will be easier to clean. Under the T.v. stand i plan to block off and I'm getting rid of those colorful drawer things....(it's a bit of a mess because I just finished cleaning out the closet. I had stuff in there from 5 years ago when i first moved in.)
http://thetegu.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album160&op=modload&name=Gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

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Argentine B&W planned for end of summer

Pea-brain · Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:57 am Post subject:

hey....I'd like some more answers please......I think you owe me a birthday present....I'm 16 as of today

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Argentine B&W planned for end of summer

Johelian · Retired Mod Joined: Nov 22, 2004 Posts: 848

I do think youre expecting too much from your tegu - while some might learn a few basic commands, things like letting it out to poo and holding it over a paper just arent likely to happen. Its not a dog - its a lizard, and the reason that practically no-one has fully trained one as a pet is because they just cant/wont learn. It wont seek to please you like a dog - if it wants to poo, it will do so and theres nothing you can do about it. If they could all willingly learn all of these things Im sure they would have overtaken all of the other pets available in the popularity stakes by now

Chances are, your tegu will expect food and well maintained housing, and will prefer it if you keep away. Will you be happy with a 4foot lizard that really prefers you to leave it alone, and shows you no affection whatsoever? If youre basing your desire to get one of these lizards purely on the belief that it will become a tame companion that will unconditionally love and play with you, its a dog you want

Avoid handling them just after they have eaten. Theres a high chance of being voided on, which isnt nice in the slightest.

A ramp may be useful, but they wont always associate it with the "right" path to take; my tegu will frequently try and pitch himself off things, including out of his cage which is around 3.5 feet from the floor. They dont seem to have a particularly well defined sense of distance, and so its more than likely he will still try and jump down - probably why they dont do much climbing as adults.

Adults can be fed every other day, or every third day in general. Mine gets 3 large mice and/or a chick or so every week, with veg and inverts filling in the gaps every couple of days - but he is on a diet at the moment to bring down his weight.

Dont fit a socket inside the cage; the cage will need frequent misting to keep the humidity up, and you run a risk of electrical shock or shorting out your homes circuit. Fit the socket outside and trail the insulated wires into the cage through a small hole.

Consider a blue tegu - 2.5 feet is really pushing too small for a fully grown black and white, which can get to over 4 feet. They are a little more pricey but are smaller, rumoured to be more docile and look fantastic.

A couple of answers to earlier questions;
1. I have a closet thing about 7'10" long, 2.5' wide, and about 6" deep (from floor to the lip which I plan to fill with substrate after putting a tarp at bottom) and 4'-5' tall from floor to ceiling (slanted ceiling). I plan to replace the cracked wooden doors with plexiglass and put some kind of spray/paint sealant on the walls (any reptile friendly suggestions?) I plan to get an automatic mister, A hygrometer and thermometer, UV lamp and heat lamp (any suggestions on brand and what type (spot, flood, florescent)?), food and water dishes, hide box, another box to put it in when feeding, a basking rock, a small personal freezer (for storing mice), supplies for breeding the following: crickets, nightcrawlers, and mice, the animals for breeding, some tongs, some work gloves (incase he gets mad), and a lizard harness. Do I need anything else?

We used a low VOC pond paint on ours to seal it. A tegu will rip through a tarp while digging; fit a sheet of plexi or coated wood to the bottom of the cage and seal it in with fishtank sealant instead. Avoid spot lights - they direct heat at one point and can cause burns in larger lizards. We use 2 100W floodlights, which are just our local hardware stores' own brand. You may need to do some experimenting with your lights and temp gun to get the right temperature at the basking spot.

8. a)how fast can a full grown male run?
When bolting or pouncing on prey, with almost catlike speed. Their usual shamble is pretty much just walking speed for a human. If they want to get away from you they can run incredibly fast.

b)how fast can they swim?
Not very fast at all.

10. should I worry about electrical cords?
Fasten them to the side of the enclosure with special grips from the hardware store to keep them out of the way. Tegus wont bite them, but they can get entangled in loose cord and pull their lighting etc down.

Happy birthday by the way.

Pea-brain · Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:30 pm Post subject:

I was afraid that that 1/2 a foot would make too much a difference in turning...but I don't really want something as small as a blue...would a blueXred be reasonable? I know its smaller than a red and larger than a blue......as long as blueXreds cost less than 500$

As for expecting too much I realize it is a reptile and because of that doesn't enjoy company as much as many mammals do. Because of this they also lack the ability to be trained as a mammal would. But I have heard that they can get tame to the point of scratching on the door to go out and really enjoy human company far past the point of tolerating your existence. I realize that I am over optimistic but success stories like this are what make me so optimistic. and theres proof in video
I know I don't want a dog because dogs are hyper. then they get old and don't do anything. I originally wanted a ring tailed lemur (not because I like the way they looked...I did alot of research) but I came to the realization that they are an endangered species. No one breeds them. A baby would be far out of my price range. I considered a coatimundi but decided they needed too much attention (they are perpetual 2 yr olds. they are determined too get in trouble) then I considered wallabies. I eventually settled on tegus because A)lets face it. reptiles are cool B) the story and video above. C) I get a sick pleasure out of watching animals eat other live animals D)they cost less than 500$ E) They aren't especially difficult to take care of. (also my idea of playing is having an animal sit next to me and let me pet it while I lounge around.)

as for the electrical questions I was worried about the tegu frying itself by biting and the humidity. thanks.
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Argentine B&W planned for end of summer

Johelian · Retired Mod Joined: Nov 22, 2004 Posts: 848

Ah yes, the agama international "dog tame" story. Again I put it to you - if this was readily possible, everyone would have a pet tegu because, as you already said, reptiles are cool. You can read my comments on the video in that thread. I dont believe its impossible to train a tegu, and I dont think that every tegu will constantly try to get away form its owners as a part of some feral instinct; but I do think theres a definite line between an animal thatw il learn to "love" and an animal that will learn to accept.

Not all dogs are hyper in the slightest. It depends on the breeding and the way the individual was treated; if you get a high-energy dog like a hunting dog or other working breed, expect to have to burn off the energy that it has been specifically bred to have.

Likewise, I imagine a tegu would sit still for about a second before deciding to explore

My tegu will climb over me, try to dig through my clothes and so on - it always has to be on his own terms or he will get antsy.Perhaps if he gets cold he will stop for a bit, but thats about it.

Im all for having unusual pets - which is why I now have reptiles and a parrot

Just be sure youre getting them for the right reason though - not just because theyre "cool". If your tegu never tames down, will you still be happy to feed it and clean it without any of the "fun" stuff for the many years it will live?