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Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:48 pm Post subject: Fibrous Osteodystrophy
This is what my beardie has, and he's had it for a while. I just started noticing that he can't really chew his food anymore, and he sleeps with his mouth open and his tounge sticking out, and sometimes with his eyes wide open...which is a little freaky. I'm had him on a strict calcium and vitamin diet ever since his jaw didn't close on it's own, but now it's longer than his upper jaw, and it bends. the rest of his bones seem fine though, but I can't fix him with the diet. He is 1.5 years old.
Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 521 Location: Chicago, IL
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:04 pm Post subject:
I'm so sorry to hear that. I lost a beardie that wasn't too old from many complications. I got him as a rescue and if I ever run into the previous owner i'd probably end up in jail for the way this beardie was treated. They are such nice animals and so easy to care for, yet some people just don't realize what they are doing to an animal... I wish I could help you with your beardie but I'm not really sure at all what Fibrous Osteodystrophy is. Hopefully someone on here that is way more educated than me can give you some tips. Good luck! and i hope all turns out well for you and your beardie. -Art- _________________ -Art-
Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 1164 Location: panamacity florida
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:21 pm Post subject:
When you say Fibrous Osteodystrophy, I take it you are taking about Metabolic Bone Disease, or MBD. MBD is made up of a number of disorders. One of the most common of these disorders is an improper balance of calcium and phosphorus in the diet resulting in hyper or hypo calcemia. MBD can affect the internal organs as well as the bones.
When there is an imbalance of calcium in the diet (hypocalcemia or hypercalcemia) bones become weak and spongy. I think this would be the case with you dragon's soft jaw.
So it is not just caused by a lack of calcium in some cases, but rather a improper balance of calcium and phosphorus in the diet.
Have you been feeding him any spinach? This could help cause this problem due to the very high levels of phosphorus.
What spinach does have that makes it less suitable food for reptiles is high oxalic acid content. Oxalic acid binds to minerals and metals (calcium being one of the main ones) and inhibits the calcium from being absorbed. Other greens to avoid because of oxalic acid content are amaranth, beet greens, cabbage and cabbage family plants (the chinese choy/choi), lettuce, parsley, purslane, rhubarb, chard, collards and mustard greens.
I am sorry to hear this. Many times beardie sickness's are not noticed until very late.
I lightly disagree with some of the aforementioned "no no" greens... and not just me. Several of those greens mentioned are on standard lists of beardie keepers and breeders (professional and hobbiests) all over the world. They are used as a daily staple, with no ill effects, by thousands of keepers. I would guess that maybe the amounts of oxalic acid is much less in many of them and overcome with the use of other vegetables, calcium/vitamin supplements. Although I do not know this as a fact... as said, that is a guess since so very many keepers do use these as staples. I personally do feed my beardies mustard, collard & turnip greens as their salad staple daily with different vegetables added daily.
I have also included a link to a site similar to this but the main species is bearded dragons. They are a VERY informative, friendly group, with lots of information to give. Many times they have been known to go and research the information just to help out another keeper. They have a section of their forum called the KCS (keeper care sheets) in which there is tons of information, including food lists... good and bad.
www.dragontank.com
Good Luck with your beardie! _________________ ~~ Christina ~~
0.0.1 Argentine B/W Tegu
0.0.1 tailess Green Iquana
1.2 Bearded Dragons
2.2.3 AZ. Banded Geckos
1.0 Dumerills Monitor
1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
0.0.7 AZ Bark Scorpions
1.0 Desert Hairy Scorpion
It's not that all those veggies are "no no's", some are very much "should never use", others are "use in moderation". Many hobbyists, particularly beginners, do not think outside of typical black:white patterns and so a food item is either good or bad to them when often they aren't really either. Many of these items are quite safe if used in moderation and as a part of a varied diet. A lot of the nutrient contents and compounds such as oxalic acid are very much a matter of where the vegetation is grown. Some studies have shown some of these vegetables to have very little oxalic acid content, others have shown them to have quite high. The idea is to be aware of their ramifications and plan a well rounded diet so as to avoid nutritional disorders. Unless you're talking about specialist feeders, monoculture diets are rarely healthy. I use a number of them myself in most of my herbivorous reptile diets and haven't had problems. Then again, I also try to offer as much variety as possible and refrain from using many of these as a staple. However, the fact that a person in question wants to use "lettuce and tums" is an indication that they aren't thinking about how best to meet their animal's needs as much as how easiest to meet the needs. So no, I wouldn't recommend using "lettuce & tums" as a basis for your beardie's diet.
Lettus is bad too, huh? What about if I put the vitamins and calcium powder on it?
Back to the imbalance, I did try to rebalance his diet by adding crushed tropical tums to the vitamin powder i use on his crickets recommended by a reptile professional. I'm taking him to a reptile vet on tuesday.
That isn't at all what I'm using as a staple. I'm coating the crickets I'm feeding him with the vitamin-tums powder, and giving him a large variety of salads which were reccommended by the books and petshop owners.
Whats these vitamin tums? Are they human vits? If so, I would probably look to an actual reptile supplement; while most of the stuff in it is probably the same as the human ones, its likely to be in the correct quantities geared for a lizard. How often are you supplementing these and the calcium? Since your beardie will have pretty much stopped its growing spurt at 1.5 years, its no longer necessary to supplement every meal with calcium or you can risk overdose.
Also, how old is your UV light in the cage? Its recommended to replace fluorescent tube lights every 6 months; since you have an older beardie you could let it overrun a little, but if youve had the same one all this time then pop down to the herp shop for a new one! It may still be lighting up but the UV output decreases over time.
I would also suggest a visit to a herp vet; if necessary they can give him a calcium shot, or otherwise suggest what course of action to take. Its best to do this as early as possible, or else you could be facing a large(r) vet bill, a deformed or - worse - a dead beardie. _________________ www.freewebs.com/johelian www.freewebs.com/joslittleworld
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1.0.0 Argentine Tegu T.merianae
3.4.0 Monkey Tailed Skink C.zebrata
1.0.0 Crawl Cay Boa B.c.imperator
0.1.0 Royal Python P.regius
Good moves Let us know how you get on. _________________ www.freewebs.com/johelian www.freewebs.com/joslittleworld
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1.0.0 Argentine Tegu T.merianae
3.4.0 Monkey Tailed Skink C.zebrata
1.0.0 Crawl Cay Boa B.c.imperator
0.1.0 Royal Python P.regius
The docter said that he has a serious calcium deficiency....duh. He gave me a tasty calcium liquid stuff to give to him, and some not so tasty pills to make him more hungry so he'll eat the crickets.
you might want to give him a few mice or rats a week, some roaches, and mix in a hamster or two to fatin him up if hes under weight. Also I'm wondering are you gutloading the crickets before you feed them to your tegu.
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