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Joined: May 30, 2006 Posts: 407 Location: STL, Missouri
Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: black and whites and blues?
I have seen B&WXreds hybrids and RedXblue hybrids but do you think it could be possible to produce B&WXblues? its something i have been thinking about for quite some time and was wondering if anyone thinks this could be possible?
Mat _________________ "To be great is to be misunderstood. . ."
from what i have gathered it has been done and they are refered to as laceheads. my blue male is gigantic for a blue and is possibly a "lacehead" i'll never know for sure. but he is 48" and still looks like a blue. so i assume that he is a cross
Joined: Jan 05, 2005 Posts: 190 Location: Traverse City, MI
Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:59 pm Post subject:
Swtbrat, The B &W Tegus and Blue tegus aren't just color varations like in beardies. They are different species of tegu. _________________ Tara
Reptiholic's Anonymous
Actually, that's not entirely true. Only herpetoculturalists think they are a separate species. Scientists that have looked into it have determined there's not enough evidence to consider blues seperate from Tupinambis merianae.
Joined: Nov 06, 2004 Posts: 972269 Location: Central Maine
Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:48 pm Post subject:
tupinambis wrote:
Actually, that's not entirely true. Only herpetoculturalists think they are a separate species. Scientists that have looked into it have determined there's not enough evidence to consider blues seperate from Tupinambis merianae.
Not to get into a large debate, but which scientists and what tests were done?
Joined: Dec 04, 2006 Posts: 238 Location: California
Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:18 am Post subject:
by the sounds of it, it might be interesting to talk to some of the herpitology folks at my college and see if they can't do a DNA marker test. I don't think finding red tegus and black and whites will be too hard and i'm sure Boscow can be tolerant enough in the name of science... we'll have to see.
Augusto Abe, Denis de Andrade and Paulo Manzani got a bunch of albino tegus, which by your (Rick) own insistence have to be blues, and they found that the morphological features of the albinos were not outside the variance that is known for Tupinambis merianae. Is this absolutely conclusive? Admittedly, no. In today's day and age, we are finding that there are cryptic species that are morphologically similar to another species and can only be determined through genetic analysis. Genetic analysis, however, has it's limitations as well. Aside from the costs, there's the specific matter of variance. As Ayrton Peres and Guarino Colli noted in their 2004 article, and as Lee Fitzgerald, J.A.Cook and A.L.Aquino acknowledged in their 1999 paper, such an analysis to try to tease out something specific from another species especially as polymorphic as T.merianae would require a much greater and comprehensive sampling of T.merianae genetic material than is currently on hand. So for a conclusive result one would have to sample nearly all the populations of T.merianae and also have clean samples of blues for a thorough comparison. Genetic barcoding may be a means of making it faster and simpler than older DNA microsatellite methods, but you still need an appropriate subset of material to make a definitive conclusion.
Joined: Dec 04, 2006 Posts: 238 Location: California
Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:03 am Post subject:
its true that there would have to be a larger sampling done of B&Ws to make a comparison worth while, but there is alot more reasuch being done in reptile conservation that there are alot more samples on hard compared to as little as two years ago. Coming across blue samples might be the harder part really. DNA coding has come a long way as well. Bar coding is all that is needed to distguish different dog breeds, and i'm not talking a yorkie from a great dane, we're talking bull Masstiff from a Franch Masstiff, although the look similar and have the same back ground their DNA shows up in a different pattern. The price may be the only really limiting factor.
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