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Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:58 pm Post subject: fish as a snack?
hey are feeder fish ok as a say 1 time a week or so or less??? _________________ 0.2.0 German Shepherds *Khoda* & *Keara*
0.0.1 Ball python *Akua*
0.0.1 normal corn *seismo*
0.0.1 snow corn *sleet*
Joined: Dec 28, 2004 Posts: 253 Location: Miami, Fl
Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:09 am Post subject:
I used goldfish for Tegus and BTS once every couple of weeks with no problem but I heard that they can have bad parasitic problems so I have stopped. _________________ Bennett
beardiedragon.com
Home of the Florida Orange
Joined: Dec 08, 2004 Posts: 998 Location: South Florida
Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:01 am Post subject:
gold fish suck as feeders for any and every animal! I'd look at a different kind of feeder fish. If they will eat it let them. We eat candy and go to fast food places. Once in awhile won't hurt the animal _________________ John Light
http://www.jlexotics.com/
Joined: Apr 23, 2005 Posts: 312 Location: Phoenix AZ
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 3:03 am Post subject:
yeah...uuuugggghhhh...goldfish are FILTHY animals. Moreover, they are kept in tanks of like...gazillions of them while waiting to be purchased, goldfish being very 'high waste' fish to start with, the water quality of these tanks is UTTERLY DEPLORABLE, leading to parasites and diseases, generally unhealthy fish etc.
Feeding them live to let the tegu chase them or whatever might be good to give the tegu a little excercise. But if you're gonna use feeder fish from a pet store, try minnows (called 'tuffies,' or rosy reds usually). They are much better nutrition then gold fish. I mean keep in mind this is all from what I know about live feeder fish for bigger fish, but I figure it might carry over to Tegus as well.
Joined: Mar 04, 2005 Posts: 36 Location: phenix city,AL
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:19 am Post subject: feeding fish
try fish sticks i dont even remove the breading just thaw and break up all my lizards love them and ive even got wild caught water snakes to eat them course i do debread those.i also use fish i catch and market fish too catfish nuggets are great.but a couple times a month as a change of diet.i hate feeder fish sold in pet stores.bait stores keep there fish better then most pet shop.and the selection is better from tuffies to bass shinners for the big eaters and cooking the fish dont mater ive tried both and they will eat both
Joined: Mar 07, 2005 Posts: 328 Location: Chesterfield, UK
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:02 am Post subject:
We don't have a problem with this in the UK really. Simple rule, it's illegal to sell fish as 'feeders', and any shop doing so can be prosecuted for it.
None of the fish stores near me allow the sale of fish if they think there is a possibility they will be used as food for other fish/reptiles etc.
Joined: Nov 06, 2004 Posts: 972270 Location: Central Maine
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:52 am Post subject:
I have used goldfish in the past as well. I had no issues at all, but was warned against it. I have looked for parasite information and nutrition facts and composition analysis for goldfish as well as guppies, but I have found nothing documented.
Everyone claims feeder fish are bad. I believe that goldfish can carry parasites and worms, as can any fish or animal. For that reason alone I stopped occasionally feeding goldfish, but I wish someone had some actual, documented information on the subject.
We are also warned against feeding wild caught insects because of parasites that they may harbor or perhaps insecticides. Again, I wonder how much of this is fact and how much of it is 'net rumors'. I understand the insecticide issue, but we don't spray here so I am more focused on parasites from wild worms, beetles, grasshoppers, etc. I can't see how anyone can house tegus outside and avoid these creatures from getting into the enclosure. So if tegus are outside and eat worms and crawlers every chance they get, can they really be that bad?
I know many people who feed goldfish and guppies to various herps with no issues, but I don't know anyone who had a herp die from a parasite related to or common to the feeder used.
I think we need to find the some facts to back up some of these 'net rumors' or we need to consider dismissing them.
well, i worked for petsmart in the fish depatrment for 3 years, and i worked at a locally owned fish shop for a year.
you wouldn't BELIEVE how many dead feeders we pulled out several times a day. HUNDREDS. that alone, makes me never feed them to any animal. _________________ 1.0.1-tegus 0.0.1-iguana 0.0.1-beardie 0.1-RTB 0.0.1 Kingsnake 0.1-potbellied pig 3.2-cats 2.1-dogs 1.1-ferrets 0.1-Quaker 2.1-Zebra finches 1.1 conures 0.1-rat 0.0.1-emperor scorpion
Joined: Mar 07, 2005 Posts: 328 Location: Chesterfield, UK
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:45 am Post subject:
Yeah, but as an experienced fish keeper, I can tell you now, that will be more to do with water quality than fish quality. Fish don't just catch random diseases, they have to be triggered by something. Most fish diseases are simply caused by stress, generated from too high concentrations of ammonia and nitrite, or over-stocking. This is especially apparent in such places as pet-smart and other 'quality' animal supermarkets.
Goldfish are an especially hardy breed of fish, and actually carry little or no disease at all if captive bred, and if the conditions suit them. How many people do you know that have goldfish living in nothing more than an upturned lamp-shade full of water, and they do well for years.
As i've said beofre, why not just use dead-bait, the fish does not need to still be flapping around for a reptile to desire it as food.
i understand that the water quality triggers the sickliness of the goldfish.
HOWEVER they are still sick and they shouldn't be given to other animals, IMHO _________________ 1.0.1-tegus 0.0.1-iguana 0.0.1-beardie 0.1-RTB 0.0.1 Kingsnake 0.1-potbellied pig 3.2-cats 2.1-dogs 1.1-ferrets 0.1-Quaker 2.1-Zebra finches 1.1 conures 0.1-rat 0.0.1-emperor scorpion
Joined: Dec 11, 2004 Posts: 216 Location: BC, Canada
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:15 pm Post subject:
Getting parasites from food is a rarity on its own as most parasites are host specific. There are exceptions of course and people have a tendency to overemphasize those exceptions. As for a reptile getting parasites from wildcaught bugs...it is highly unlikely. Parasites travel throughout the body of a host during there lifecycle. If the body structures don't match then it is unlikely that the parasite will survive. A gut parasite that ends up in the liver is useless. Since the internal structure of an insect is quite different then that of a reptile it would be very unlikely that the parasite would be able to successfully reproduce and affect its host. But like I said there are some exception.
By the way just so everyone knows this is information I obtained from my parasitology class.
Joined: Dec 28, 2004 Posts: 253 Location: Miami, Fl
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:23 pm Post subject:
If I remember correctly, coccidia can survive outside the host for over 30 days. If a lizard (anole, gecko...) in the wild has coccidia and a bug walks through the poop of that lizard and you feed it to one of your animals it could be transmitted that way. From what I have read, that is the belief of how crix transmit parasites, by the spurs on their legs snagging poop, not what they eat. Additionally, wild insects can be subject to pesticides that they may have built up an immunity to but one that would be devastating to your herp pets. Besides parasites there are gram negative and positive bacteria and viruses that can be hosted by various animals and passed on with no regard to the spices of the host and the recipient. And of course fungus can be transmited too. _________________ Bennett
beardiedragon.com
Home of the Florida Orange
Joined: Nov 06, 2004 Posts: 972270 Location: Central Maine
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:22 pm Post subject:
Regarding coccidia, that's true, but a herp on a lawn who licks/smells part of a lawn that was exposed to coccidia would still be at the same risk. It's not wild insect/feeder specific, it's exposure in general.
Pesticides are a risk if you live in an area that is sprayed. Even if your land is not sprayed some insects may come from a distance away where it could have been sprayed.
There is indeed a risk of pesticides as well as bacteria, but exposure to the outside or any environment besides a strictly sanitary enclosure brings that risk too. Walking through the woods outside or doing some minor yardwork then washing your hands and holding your tegu carrys risks of pesticide or bacteria contact from your clothing or even your footwear. Just walking down the side of some roads can bring you in contact with pesticides, which you will then track into your house on your clothing.
I am just curious if there is a serious risk of bacteria if a tegu eats a wild insect now and then. How does someone who houses a tegu outside keep insects out of the enclosure? Being outside exposes the tegus to insects that they can (and probably will) eat as well as ticks, mosquitoes, various fleas, blackflies, etc..
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