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Yes, i put an angry monitor in a bathtub of water and yes, the water was over his head. That was Buzzy. He is the star of the first 3 vids. If it damaged him in any way to be put in the bath, he's not giving any sign of it. I just know better than to be the focus of an angry monitor. Why he was angry i do not know. Why he likes me i do know. The growth data show that he had a sudden surge in growth after that bath, whereas he was not growing before that.
Now I have not seen the video and dont care too. I dont care too much about this thread except for the whole forcing an animal under water. I dont think that you can say that the water was over his head like there wasnt a problem. You MADE the water over his head. You were in the process of drowning this animal. Whether the final out come was a drowned, dead animal or not, you were still in the process of drowning him. How can you say you love your animals? Reptiles are not Pets and you are not treating them as a pet if they were. The definition of a pet is any domesticated or tamed animal that is kept as a companion and cared for affectionately. (www.dictionary.com). Reptiles are not pets for the reason they are not domesticated (domesticated defined as tame). And if they were your "pets" as you state, then they would be cared for affectionately. Which forcing the animals head under water is not affection. _________________ Brad
1.0.0 Woma Python - Oz
1.3.9 Crested Geckos
0.0.1 A. versicolor - Blue
0.1.0 Bouvier des Flandres - Lexi
1.0.0 Cat - Sigmund
i'd say thanks for prefacing all your remarks with an admission that you know nothing about it and refuse to make the necessary effort to click on a link to find out what is what. But i'm very interested in why you have anything at all to say since you admit you haven't got any first hand information. I'm also interested in the nature of your prejudice that you propose to adjudicate an issue on which you confess ignorance and a desire to maintain that ignorance.
Quote:
You were in the process of drowning this animal. Whether the final out come was a drowned, dead animal or not, you were still in the process of drowning him.
I see from your definition of 'domestication' that you are aware of the dictionary. Why not look up the word 'drown' now?
Perhaps a bit of demagoguery and propaganda may enliven your forum and you can achieve the goal of rousing the rabble for a lynching. Is this your goal?
If that is the case, i'll have no problem leaving the forum and deprive you of the information i produce at my expense through my diligent effort.
Quote:
Reptiles are not Pets
If this is the premise under which you keep your specimens, it should be no surprise that you are unaware of their potential. It should also be no surprise that you don't have such friendly animals as mine demonstrably are. This disqualifies you from giving any advice to someone who is successful with rearing his savs in a manner that disproves your premise.
Quote:
Which forcing the animals head under water is not affection.
To imply that i hold an animal's head under water is purest slander. It is false and it is deliberately false and it is deliberately invented by you in your self confessed ignorance and put forward on a public forum as truth. You are not only ignorant; you are a vicious liar as well.
I'll have no problem leaving a forum which is populated with vicious liars such as yourself. Do you wish to be the one to claim credit for disgusting me so completely i reject the entire forum, reptile.king?
Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 403 Location: Missouri
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:57 pm Post subject:
danceswithsavs wrote:
Quote:
Now I have not seen the video and dont care too.
i'd say thanks for prefacing all your remarks with an admission that you know nothing about it and refuse to make the necessary effort to click on a link to find out what is what. But i'm very interested in why you have anything at all to say since you admit you haven't got any first hand information. I'm also interested in the nature of your prejudice that you propose to adjudicate an issue on which you confess ignorance and a desire to maintain that ignorance.
Quote:
You were in the process of drowning this animal. Whether the final out come was a drowned, dead animal or not, you were still in the process of drowning him.
I see from your definition of 'domestication' that you are aware of the dictionary. Why not look up the word 'drown' now?
Perhaps a bit of demagoguery and propaganda may enliven your forum and you can achieve the goal of rousing the rabble for a lynching. Is this your goal?
If that is the case, i'll have no problem leaving the forum and deprive you of the information i produce at my expense through my diligent effort.
Quote:
Reptiles are not Pets
If this is the premise under which you keep your specimens, it should be no surprise that you are unaware of their potential. It should also be no surprise that you don't have such friendly animals as mine demonstrably are. This disqualifies you from giving any advice to someone who is successful with rearing his savs in a manner that disproves your premise.
Quote:
Which forcing the animals head under water is not affection.
To imply that i hold an animal's head under water is purest slander. It is false and it is deliberately false and it is deliberately invented by you in your self confessed ignorance and put forward on a public forum as truth. You are not only ignorant; you are a vicious liar as well.
I'll have no problem leaving a forum which is populated with vicious liars such as yourself. Do you wish to be the one to claim credit for disgusting me so completely i reject the entire forum, reptile.king?
-edited by RehabRalphy-
Last edited by RehabRalphy on Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total
I think the real problem with this movie was that the song was annoying and horrible in this context.
will you guys chill.. everything thats supposed to happen will happen. If dances is doing something wrong then something bad will happen out of this. If it works fine for them then it'll be fine. Maybe if you think its a bad idea you shouldn't try it. But most of you are correct, something potentially dangerous shouldn't be provoked like this. Everyone gets what they deserve.
I posted my original statement as a response to you holding your animal underwater, which i see as animal abuse. My first hand info was from what you said. I believe I even quoted it in my original post!?! I could be wrong though.
Drown: to kill by submerging under water or other liquid.
Synonyms: deluge, engulf, submerge, drench, soak
So you were in the process of killing your animal by submerging it under water. I think you just helped prove my point!
Actually, all my animals will tolerate my handling with the exception of an adult iguana that I just rescued 2 weeks ago. But when she is mean, you dont see me "submerging her under water".
Please let me know if I am wrong, but cant monitors swim or atleast float? So if you put them in water, they will swim and stay on top of the water. Now in order for the water to be over his head, there has to be pressure on top of him in order for his head to be under water.
You can leave if you want. I can careless either way. I just think it is horrible for one to treat an animal they say they love this way. I am sure my iguana would become as you state it "tame" if I put her in a tub of water and the water was over her head. _________________ Brad
1.0.0 Woma Python - Oz
1.3.9 Crested Geckos
0.0.1 A. versicolor - Blue
0.1.0 Bouvier des Flandres - Lexi
1.0.0 Cat - Sigmund
oh- is that all it was, just a misunderstanding? if you say that's all it was, i'll retract the very strong counter-accusation and reduce it to the charge of willful ignorance, which is something you can easily remedy.
i wish you had simply asked before going off half cocked.
plz note that there could have been no such confusion had you informed yourself by reading the material. That's an error on your part that i can't be held responsible for.
water over his head was the wrong way to say it, then.
please change that to 'water so deep he had to swim'
yes, they float and swim. mine get a bath almost every day in the tub and stick their own heads under water with eyes open and flick their tongues out exploring. They really seem to enjoy it.
i don't think it is possible for them to sink.
please watch the vids. there is no substitute for seeing them when they are a click away.
i dont agree with that at all, in ricks video they are comeing to him because they want attention hes not sat there with food for them like you are in all your videos
your savs are still only juvies and when they get bigger you best be ready for a few scars which none of them will be there fault
dont even try and compare savs to have the same temperment as tegus your dreaming
i dont agree with that at all, in ricks video they are comeing to him because they want attention hes not sat there with food for them like you are in all your videos
your savs are still only juvies and when they get bigger you best be ready for a few scars which none of them will be there fault
dont even try and compare savs to have the same temperment as tegus your dreaming
I'm sure if he had a camera 24/7 there would be tons of video showing just affection.
And I assume you are only referring go argentine tegus... Lots of mean tegus out there.
To everyone else. I'm sure if dances gets bit he will let us know. He is doing a long term experiment and the results will come out in time. I think the term abuse is extreme harming of an animal. People tend to use such a word in the minor. I have no doubts that dances would never do anything to harm his savs.
I also know a sav owner that keeps her sav as a pet. It is the calmest reptile I have ever seen. She spends alot of time with it and I honestly believe that it thinks she is one of them.
I have also seen pythons so 'tame' that they don't even constrict when a thawed mouse is given to them.
Oh, and all of you are guilty of trying to domesticate reptiles. Otherwise you wouldn't have them in your house.
danceswithsavs, i asked a question in the youtube comments but i have trouble seeing them for some reason, so i'm not sure if you responded;
have you ever worked with adult monitor lizards? if so, for how long? how did you get into monitor lizards and what made you decide to try and 'train' them like this? what exactly do you hope to accomplish?
danceswithsavs, i asked a question in the youtube comments but i have trouble seeing them for some reason, so i'm not sure if you responded;
I tend to delete excursive questions and flames at youtube in order to keep focus on the savs. As you are well aware, there is a huge prejudice against this, even on a forum whose owner is renowned for his 'dog-tame' tegus. He gets almost equally outrageous responses when his vid is posted on some forums: 'those tegus are COLD! and 'THEY ARE JUST TRYING TO ESCAPE!' - you know the routine, all caps flaming crap.
Questions which are crafted not to solicit information but to discover ammunition are deleted as well. I distinguish between interest and interrogatory.
I do make exceptions, of course, in order to preserve some particularly fine examples of prejudice so that as more vids are produced the idiots are publically shamed. It's not my mission, but sometimes i'm petty enough to enjoy bitchslapping a punk.
Quote:
have you ever worked with adult monitor lizards? if so, for how long? how did you get into monitor lizards and what made you decide to try and 'train' them like this? what exactly do you hope to accomplish?
These are the sort of questions i refer to above.
Though the answers provide no traction for the bashin, i'll leave it to you to google it up as a demonstration of your sincere interest. Maybe you can find the couple articles i published when i did volunteer work at LAMUSNAT dept. of herpetology or, if you ever get to Universidad Autonoma de Guadalajara you can check out the many thousands of fine specimens in the herp collection i established for them. None of this, however, has diddly squat to do with training savs so wtf are you asking for? Why do you need to know? Answer: you don't.
PS - i am not 'trying' - i am doing. I have already accomplished what i intended- i have some lovely 'dog-tame' savs. They are already trained. You are the one who is so trying- you and many others who turn a good thing into a mob rally and demand attention for yourself just to crow against the reality that savs can be docile and even friendly IF THEY ARE RAISED PROPERLY. For what reason could it be desirable to have a savage animal that could snap off a finger? That would be a patently foolish- yet it seems to be what some of you promote. Perhaps you can explain the rationale behind teaching an animal to avoid people (except in the context of feeding) and to attack and kill things for food?
That sort of training can lead to accidents such as this famous one:
http://www.time.com/time/sampler/article/0,8599,133163,00.html
i asked simple questions, there was no need to delete them or be snarky. i apologize for calling you a crackpot, but that is how you come across to most people. i have no idea what your name is and to my knowledge you have never mentioned it anywhere in those videos or your posts here, so how are we supposed to find out about your other work with monitors?
understand this; most, if not all, reptile care books currently on the market will tell you NOT to hand-feed monitor lizards. we, being amateur keepers for the most part, gain all of our information from such books. so you should understand that is why people react the way they do to your videos. there is nothing to indicate that you have experience or know what you are doing.
also, i think this forum needs the odd thread like this . we almost never have heated posts like this! and don't be afraid to call people out if they're being out of line! (like i was )
grimlock-
apology is accepted and i'll remove our repartee from youtube and we can start over fresh.
If your allegiance is to truth, you are an honorable man and deserve recognition for it. There is nobility in you.
Nobody knows everything. We all make mistakes. It is no crime to make an error- only to persist in one.
If i make mistakes, then i shall correct them and apologise where due, just as you have done.
It's all about the savs. Let the vids, etc., stand on their merits.
Time will prove one way or another how well or poorly my investigations turn out. I'll post the results no matter how it turns out. If i make mistakes, that's just as valuable information as if i make worthwhile discoveries- nobody will have to repeat my mistakes at their expense and if i learn something worthwhile then others can carry the studies beyond my capabilities and advance everybody's knowledge. Nobody can lose when it's knowledge we are after.
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- JeCh
. we almost never have heated posts like this! and don't be afraid to call people out if they're being out of line! (like i was 
)