Has anyone ever seen these in the pet trade?

[tupinambis]

Uh, no, it doesn't just seem to have the wrong name for them. If you know the history of the nomenclature of tegus, there was a mix up and confusion for the longest time. Linnaeus himself first described the species as Lacerta teguixin in 1758. Whereas a number of other naturalists also described in under various names, Daudin recognized it didn't belong in an Old World genera and reclassified it as Tupinambis monitor in 1802 (erroneously believing as several previous naturalists did that it was a monitor variant). Spix in 1825 decided it needed a new species epithet and reclassified it under Tupinambis nigropunctatus. After this time there was debate on whether teguixin or nigropunctatus was the same, whether zoological precedent dictated one over the other. However, re-examination of written literature, specimens, and where collected has lead to the consensus that teguixin and nigropunctatus are the same species and therefore Linnaeus' teguixin is the recognized species and punctatus is retired and considered a synonym.

As for the beaded scale bit, I've heard many people describe to me that certain species have beaded while others have smooth overlapping. From what was taught to me as what qualified as a "beaded" scale, I'd say I've never seen ANY tegu with a beaded scale. In most of the accepted literature I've read, no such qualifier is used to describe them, it's not a reliable trait. However, looking at the pictures there on a high resolution monitor, I can see the temporal scales on the top of the head clearly match that of Tupinambis teguixin, not any of the other species that could be in that area. Likewise the body shape and colour pattern support this view.

Remember, in each species there is a LOT of variation in colour, naturally. Call them morphs or subspecies, but there are lots of different colours present. Under current nomenclature, that which is in those pictures is T.teguixin. The nigropunctatus epithet is considered the same species, synonymous, and "nigropunctatus" is no longer used.

Furthermore, considering how rabid people are to have the next newest thing, we all know how impossible it is to just create names out of the blue. It's clearly never been done before and no one would ever think of taking advantage of other people's yearnings by just using different names in order to sell a lizard.

[Pikey]

ok to me it looked like a Tupinambis duseni not a teguixin, but i could be mistaken. thats what i ment by they had the wrong name.
& it's not like they are trying to rip people off they pretty much ONLY sell to zoos

here's thier other tegus
Tupinambis-Teguixin
http://worldwidefauna.com/exporter.p...ath=26&pid=306
http://worldwidefauna.com/exporter.p...th=66&pid=3725

Tupinambis Rufescens
http://worldwidefauna.com/exporter.p...th=90&pid=2742

Tupinambis Merianae
http://worldwidefauna.com/exporter.p...th=90&pid=2743

then they have a Dwarf Plated Tegu
http://worldwidefauna.com/exporter.p...th=79&pid=3733

Peruvian Monitor Tegu
http://worldwidefauna.com/exporter.p...th=79&pid=3734


they used to have the 4 lined tegu listed, but i didnt find it

[the enigma]

Easy fellas.

[the enigma]

Easy fellas. It's no big deal who is right or wrong.

[nordica]

Oh they're fine. They're simply sharing information with each other, and therefor, with the forum.

[tupinambis]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to insinuate this company was out there to rip people off. In fact, other than not being up-to-date with the scientific nomenclature, I would applaud these fellows for using a much more informative common name for these tegus. I've said it before, but like many of my messages it gets overlooked a lot, there's no regulatory body (ie. there is no institution set up establishing and determining the use of) for the common names of tegus, the names that hobbyists have become so attached to (Colombian black & white, Argentinian black & white, etc.) are usually only used by the hobbyists themselves, ie. they have no meaning or secured status with anyone else. Nor do common names imply species status, as seems to be so commonly held in belief. The only names which are regulated, which do convey species status, are the scientific names (which always makes me wonder why so many hobbyists are so opposed to learning them). It would seem particularly in this case that the name "Tobago orange tegu" has confused a few people, making them think they were another species. However, I think calling them a Colombian would be errant as they aren't from Colombia.

Another message I keep trying to convey but which seems to be forgotten every time someone sees a new picture is colour (in and of itself) is NOT a reliable trait on which to determine a species. Every species of tegu (with possible exception of Tupinambis longilineus) shows a broad range of colours and patterns (ie. they are polymorphic). Because one has yellow colouring does NOT automatically mean it is the yellow tegu Tupinambis duseni. Many species display the yellow colouring. Judging a tegu to be of one species or another solely on colour is like determining what type of car a person has solely on colour. There is ONE exception (that I'm aware of) to this, and that is the specific hue of red that is indicative of Tupinambis rufescens. But I stress it isn't just any red, it is that specific "rusty" dried blood hue of red that only seems to be displayed by T.rufescens. There are other reds that a number of species can have, but that ONE red hue seems to be restricted to the T.rufescens species.

As for the particular link pictures possibly being T.duseni, there are a number of points that would indicate otherwise. IF we trust the locality of these specimens, then right off we know they cannot be T.duseni. Tobago is an island nation northeast of Venezuela, T.duseni are restricted to a specific biome on the continent south of the Amazon. In fact, if it is from Tobago, as far as I know it can only be one species. But as for looks, it looks nothing like a T.duseni to me. Tupinambis duseni typically have a "front heavy" look to them; they have largish heads with largish forearms and look unbalanced. In transverse cross-section their body is somewhat squarish (common trait of the merianae clade) whereas in those photos it is clearly oval or roundish (common trait of the teguixin clade). Tupinambis duseni also typically have a dark head, the ones in that link are light.

Now, with this all being said, I have to admit that there's the possibility the Tobago orange tegu represents a different species, one that is currently not classified, a cryptic species as it were. It would not be surprising if the genetics were done and it was found that mainland T.teguixin and those on further off, restricted islands were sufficiently different to be reclassified (given the assumption the island populations are natural and not introduced). And Pikey, I'm not trying to belittle your original statement either: just because these are currently classified as T.teguixin does not diminish their beauty at all in my eyes. They are rather splendid specimens and it would be wonderful to have a breeding pair (and I would hope people would attempt to maintain a pure bloodline of "Tobagos" as opposed to breeding them with just anything).

[Pikey]

Ok i see what you're saying, Sorry i "jumped the gun". I my self have every only seen few photos of the T. duseni. But like i said i could be mistaken I had just figured that maybe some one years ago got some T. duseni and took them to the island and started a breeding "ranched" (because they say they are ranched). Because i know brazil will not legaly export, but a ranch set up a long time ago out side of brazil would be out side of the no exporting law.

But again you are most likely correct about them, & I would personaly agree nomatter T. teguixin or T. duseni they are one of the most beautiful tegu. & if they are T. teguixin & every one of them are that orange/yellow is there a chance they are a s. species?
& again sorry if i've jumped the gun out of the 1000's of photos and countless T. teguixin i've seen i've never seen one that orange before


& i would love to get a "Tegu Monitor" as they put it. Do you know anything of those lizards?

[the enigma]

sorry for the double post. I have a dumb computer

[tupinambis]

As a matter of fact, I had a pair of Callopistes flavipunctatus for a short while about 16 years ago. They were rather finicky eaters, somewhat timid. Unfortunately, due to conditions in my life at the time, I wound up not having them for too long to develop much experience with them and had to let them go to someone with better means.